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  • Martini-Enfield carbine, or....

    ...a Khyber Pass knock-off?

    At a local gun show today, I picked up a firearm that I was told was a Martini-Henry (or Enfield) Artillery Carbine chambered in .303. I'm having some trouble identifying the markings, so I'd thought I'd put this post up here and get some additional input.

    These are the primary markings on the right side of the receiver:

    a crown
    V.R (Victoria Regina ?)
    ENFIELD
    1893

    what looks to be a triangle
    E(E)D ...the second E being a little distorted.

    No markings on the left side of the receiver.

    A barely noticeable cartouche on the stock. In fact, it's so barely noticeable that I might be imagining it, and I definitely can't read it.

    Well, here are some pics:

















    Also, there's a couple nails just in front of the band, which I wasn't happy with, but there was one on the much, much nicer and much, much more expensive full-length martini-henry/enfield. The seller tried to tell me about the history of this weapon in general, being an "artillery model" and such stuff, but it was hard to hear him due to my ear thing and advancing grumpiness.

    I've been really, really wanting one of these, and since he wouldn't come down on his Krag, I decided to settle for this. I have probably been had.
    The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

  • #2
    Yup! As they say! If it doesn't seem/feel right, it probably isn't.

    The screws holding the whole breech and trigger assembly look hand made rather than massed produced. And whats with that top breech 'armourers' marking that has had an attempt at having it obscured? Looks like something put together on the borders of Pakistan and Afghanistan from spare parts to me! And no conversion to a .303 metford barrel, stamping on the lock plate seems iffy.

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ma...orers+markings

    http://www.martinihenry.com/metalmarkings.htm

    http://www.martinihenry.com/othermarkings.htm

    PS You should take off that top cover piece of stock just in front of the breech to see if it has markings above that 'E' And ffs' don't attempt to fire it. I know I may well be telling you the obvious, but please see this as me just being concerned.


    Paul
    Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 21 Feb 16, 16:01.
    ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
    All human ills he can subdue,
    Or with a bauble or medal
    Can win mans heart for you;
    And many a blessing know to stew
    To make a megloamaniac bright;
    Give honour to the dainty Corse,
    The Pixie is a little shite.

    Comment


    • #3
      If anything, I'm learning a lot I didn't know about Martini-Henry rifles.

      Well, I can't do anything but agree with you, and of course, I have no intention of firing it until inspected and determined safe. And, even then, if this does prove to be a knock-off, then no firing whatsoever. I can always clean it up and use it as a trade in for another firearm.

      As for the conversion to a .303 Metford...weren't Martini-Enfields specifically made for .303, and not conversions?

      The wear on the top of it where the breech opens looks either as well-used or poorly-crafted. I can't tell which, though I'm leaning toward poorly-crafted. Is there anything else that proves this to be a knock-off?
      The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

      Comment


      • #4
        You ever watch this video?



        That gun was probably hand crafted...

        Ps. I'd see if it can be sold via a gun by back program. You don't want some guy having a catastrophic disaster by a malfunction...
        Last edited by Bwaha; 21 Feb 16, 17:12.
        Credo quia absurdum.


        Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hida Akechi View Post
          If anything, I'm learning a lot I didn't know about Martini-Henry rifles.

          Well, I can't do anything but agree with you, and of course, I have no intention of firing it until inspected and determined safe. And, even then, if this does prove to be a knock-off, then no firing whatsoever. I can always clean it up and use it as a trade in for another firearm.

          As for the conversion to a .303 Metford...weren't Martini-Enfields specifically made for .303, and not conversions?

          The wear on the top of it where the breech opens looks either as well-used or poorly-crafted. I can't tell which, though I'm leaning toward poorly-crafted. Is there anything else that proves this to be a knock-off?
          Go through that site I posted. The 'E' denotes a .303 Metford barrel but it may not be good for over the counter smokeless .303 ammo. That site and it's links will give you all the information you need.

          By the way! That armoury marking above the breech that has been partially obliterated is probably the Mosque mark for Kabul armouries.



          Paul
          Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 21 Feb 16, 19:31.
          ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
          All human ills he can subdue,
          Or with a bauble or medal
          Can win mans heart for you;
          And many a blessing know to stew
          To make a megloamaniac bright;
          Give honour to the dainty Corse,
          The Pixie is a little shite.

          Comment


          • #6
            Typing from my phone so this will be short.

            Dibble I did go through your links. Good stuff. I have been convinced that this is now a knockoff. Thanks for the help.

            Bwaha I have not seen that video but will get to it asap. The buyback program is a good idea...unless they offer me only pennies for it.

            I also got this idea, perhaps a stupid one, of having this gun reworked, refurbished and rechambered for something smaller and safer to shoot in it. Like .22 or something. Make it a plinker. Not worrying about the cost, how does that sound?
            The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

            Comment


            • #7
              Reworking for a .22 would be too hard to do. You'd be going from a centerfire to a rimfire cartridge.

              Comment


              • #8
                Oh duh. Yeah I wasn't thinking of that. Thanks for pointing that out. Well...what about another caliber?
                The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Bah. On second thought I'll give up on that idea.
                  The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'd get rid of it and buy a Swedish Mauser. They're cheap and one of the best brush guns around. If you can find a 1909 Argentine snap that baby up. Both are tremendous guns with incredible accuracy. The Argie is a beast though. Kinda painful to shoot.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Mauser


                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.65%C3%9753mm_Argentine
                    Credo quia absurdum.


                    Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Oh I want one of those as well. This isn't really an either or situation here though. I'll look into my options this week and move on from there. Thanks guys.
                      The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Martini-Henry rifles were converted to .22 rimfire and used as target rifles... I know this as I have one!

                        http://www.rifleman.org.uk/W.W.Green...get_rifles.htm

                        The long toll of the brave
                        Is not lost in darkness
                        Over the fruitful earth
                        And athwart the seas
                        Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                        Unquenchable forever.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I remember using one when I was in the Army Cadets. It was a lovely thing to use, Its match sights were also a good memory too!

                          Mind you, I also loved firing the Lee Enfield .22, but none afaiac, were as good as the SLR (Converter kit .22)

                          Paul
                          ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                          All human ills he can subdue,
                          Or with a bauble or medal
                          Can win mans heart for you;
                          And many a blessing know to stew
                          To make a megloamaniac bright;
                          Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                          The Pixie is a little shite.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, I have the gun now, my first instinct is to get my money out of it somehow someway. If I can resell it, great. If I can convert it and it is affordable, even better. I checked the gun buyback programs...no thanks, they won't give me enough for it.

                            I could have it rendered non-firing, and just have it as a conversation piece or whatnot, but I loathe having guns that I can't shoot. It's like getting toys for Christmas as a kid but told that I can't play with them.

                            I did learn a lesson and will not jump headfirst into a sale just because it's something I was dying to have...and that I do actually know more than some people trying to sell their guns. Especially now.
                            The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

                            Comment

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