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  • Need help with my infantry loadout

    Greetings!

    I know this topic technically belongs to "hobbies" section, but due to the fact that "hobbies" section consists mostly of topics about scale modelling, I tought I might find some help here.

    Here's the thing. One of my hobbies (next to history, languages, etc.) is airsoft. Don't laugh! I'm serious! Since serving in the army (both professionally, or as a conscript/national guardsman) is unfortunately not an option in my country, I have looked to airsoft as a way to learn more about "soldiering". Mainly how to deal with weather conditions, how to take care of your equipment, how to work as a team, use tactics, etc. So I'm trying to keep things as realistic as possible.

    I have already read some very helpful posts on this forum, but I still have some questions about "how to" arrange my loadout. I will describe exactly what my "job" would be, and what type of terrain I will be dealing with. In hope of getting some useful advice from people with more knowledge and experience then me.

    1.) My "job" - Or should I say "my team's job". We are scouts, pure and simple. Our primary concern is moving through rough terrain undetected (for several hours if need be), approaching a designated object (house, bunker, etc.) and clearing it. Some parallels could be drawn to Cold War era special forces operatives, whose "job" was to locate and destroy enemy missile launch sites behind enemy lines.

    2.) Terrain - 90% of a time we are having our practice fights in a rough, rocky terrain, filled with low/middle vegetation (about the height of an average man), typical of Mediterranean area. Also, pine forests filled with the same kind of thick vegetation, similar to those in North America. Protection from thorns is vital here, as well as solid boots that can protect your ankle if you step into a tricky hole between razor-sharp rocks.

    What I'd like to know is this:

    1.) In one post, I read about Camelbak hydration systems. One soldier (I forgot his nick name, sorry) said they tend to burst, so it's a good idea to have a canteen at hand. I was wondering, how is it possible for Camelbak to burst? My Camelbak hydration system is protected inside a small Camelbak backpack (M.U.L.E.). I know it will burst if hit by a bullet or a shrapnel, but what if you use a standard Camelbak bladder, with a backpack worn over it? Is it possible for bladder to burst due to the weight of the backpack (if you're wearing, for example, a larger 24-hours backpack) pressuring it? I often wear it that way, so I can drop my backpack easily if I have to move fast to engage the "enemy", and then retrieve it later. Am I the only one who does that?

    2.) Do US soldiers ever wear load bearing systems (belt kits)? I find it extremely practical to NOT have a standard assault vest/chest rig on me during long marches and sneaking through bushes. I'm talking about scouts, of course, not grunts... Here's my loadout... It's a work in progress, but I'd like to hear from you if I'm on the right track with this...

    - Molle belt kit with shoulder straps.
    - 4 double full lid magazine pouches with buckles (buckles are silent, and also reliable when it comes to protecting your mags). I never wear CQB pouches, simply because I realized it's a good way to lose your mags in the forest.
    - Source 3L hydration system.
    - Radio pouch, I keep it on my left shoulder strap. It sometimes gets in the way when I have to fire from my left shoulder, but hey...
    - 2 "space saver" pouches for extra ammo, extra socks, gloves, etc.
    - 1 canteen pouch for snack bars and an extra 0.5L bottle of water.
    - 1 large medic pouch for some basic first aid, also some other extra stuff I like to have with me, such as fire starter/cigarette lighter, spare protective glasses, flashlight, etc.

    Here's the problem...

    I am thinking of getting 2 grenade pouches, and an extra canteen pouch. In your opinion, should I even bother with the grenades (I'm not using grenades in airsoft, but I'm using dummies and rocks in order to increase the weight, since I'm trying to keep it realistic)? I read about soldiers carrying no more then 2 or 3 grenades with them, depending on the mission. If I wear 4 magazine pouches, I may have to sacrifice some extra items for the sake of extra ammo.

    Any toughts?

    Thanks for your help!

  • #2
    There is a subforum clearly labeled Paintball and Airsoft and it isn't under hobbies.

    To answer

    1: Putting too much weight on your camelbak can cause it to burst. I haven't had that happen to me in the Army, but I have had it happen to me while skiing.

    2: Yes we wear an LBE over our IOTV's. Just google pictures of plate carriers or IOTV load outs.

    And I'll still snicker about Airsoft giving you an idea of soldiering.

    Comment


    • #3
      Airsoft is here: http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...play.php?f=139

      Not really sure why it isn't under hobbies.
      Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

      Questions about our site? See the FAQ.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Dinxy View Post
        1.) In one post, I read about Camelbak hydration systems. One soldier (I forgot his nick name, sorry) said they tend to burst, so it's a good idea to have a canteen at hand. I was wondering, how is it possible for Camelbak to burst? My Camelbak hydration system is protected inside a small Camelbak backpack (M.U.L.E.). I know it will burst if hit by a bullet or a shrapnel, but what if you use a standard Camelbak bladder, with a backpack worn over it? Is it possible for bladder to burst due to the weight of the backpack (if you're wearing, for example, a larger 24-hours backpack) pressuring it? I often wear it that way, so I can drop my backpack easily if I have to move fast to engage the "enemy", and then retrieve it later. Am I the only one who does that?
        Like N said, a bladder can explode if too much pressure is applied to it.
        Furthermore, I wouldn't wear anything over my camelbak if possible, it will bite you in the ass if you're carrying a heavy load. Instead I put my camelbak inside the pack.
        Yes, it is SOP, when possible, to drop the pack on contact, finish the threat and retrieve the pack.
        - Radio pouch, I keep it on my left shoulder strap. It sometimes gets in the way when I have to fire from my left shoulder, but hey...
        "Hey" what? if it gets in your way of firing your weapon- don't do it.
        - 1 large medic pouch for some basic first aid
        What's a "large medic pouch" in your book? unless you're a medic a bandage and a tourniquet should suffice.
        I am thinking of getting 2 grenade pouches, and an extra canteen pouch. In your opinion, should I even bother with the grenades (I'm not using grenades in airsoft, but I'm using dummies and rocks in order to increase the weight, since I'm trying to keep it realistic)? I read about soldiers carrying no more then 2 or 3 grenades with them, depending on the mission. If I wear 4 magazine pouches, I may have to sacrifice some extra items for the sake of extra ammo.

        Any toughts?
        Well, it's up to you isn't it?
        I never took more then 2 grenades directly on me. We had an extra kit if needed.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, if you're going to try and be as realistic as possible here's what my loadout was:

          1 Canteen
          1 Camelbak
          4 x 2 Magazine Pouches
          1 Grenade Pouch
          1 Magazine Dump Pouch (for empty magazines....easier than a pocket)

          I carried most everything on my flak jacket, except for 3 mag pouches, which were on my left thigh in a thigh rig. Not having a chest full of mag pouches made it easier to move around when not standing straight up. You could use an LBV to do the holding since I doubt you have a flak jacket.
          Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

          Comment


          • #6
            Hello Dinxy,

            It's unfortunate you can't join the Croatian Army. Only the infantry can give you the kind of experience you are after. Some units do train with paint rounds and/or paint ball guns with paint balls. The laser systems, if properly maintained, are used as well. Blanks don't really do it much justice. I believe using your issued weapon and paint rounds is the closest you can get to real simulated combat. Can a civilian purchase a semi-auto VHS or G36C assault rifle? For realism and in case your country goes to war, I'd focus on your Army's kit. Find a Croatian soldier and ask them what they use. Not sure if you have Army surplus stores, or pawn shops that sell the stuff they use, but in the states you can find most of the kit at an Army surplus store.

            This would be a good question to be served by fellow paintballers. Paintballers, at least competitive ones, primary concern is mobility in a fast close-in environment, so rucking with all the kit that soldiers use isn't practical. But I do like your enthusiasm for learning and training. A scout will not usually pack as much, as their focus is moving silently into the area. You don't need more than two grenade pouches. A canteen pouch is useful. It's okay to sacrifice non-essential items in favor of magazines in my opinion. In a firefight, the only thing that's going to help are more rounds... and perhaps that tourniquet and water.

            Typically 30 lbs (13.7 kg) is a good enough weight to carry to train with. You can up that up to 45 lbs (20.4 kg). If you want to be all hoorah, like the US Marines you can carry 70 lbs (31.8 kg), but that's just crazy.
            The Europa Barbarorum II team [M2TW] needs YOUR HELP NOW HERE!

            Comment


            • #7
              If you're looking for a weight equivalent for someone scouting out a position, having already dropped pack farther back, I'd go this way:

              Weapon = 9lbs
              Plates = 30lbs
              Ammo = 10lbs

              That covers something mildly close to a realistic loadout. If you add in water, grenades, and (God Forbid) radio, then you're going to shoot right on up north of 70lbs.

              Figure that your daypack, with water, should weigh in at 15kg or so if you want to start building up your strength and endurance for carrying a real combat load.
              Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dinxy View Post

                Here's the thing. One of my hobbies (next to history, languages, etc.) is airsoft. Don't laugh! I'm serious! Since serving in the army (both professionally, or as a conscript/national guardsman) is unfortunately not an option in my country, I have looked to airsoft as a way to learn more about "soldiering". Mainly how to deal with weather conditions, how to take care of your equipment, how to work as a team, use tactics, etc. So I'm trying to keep things as realistic as possible.

                1.) My "job" - Or should I say "my team's job". We are scouts, pure and simple. Our primary concern is moving through rough terrain undetected (for several hours if need be), approaching a designated object (house, bunker, etc.) and clearing it. Some parallels could be drawn to Cold War era special forces operatives, whose "job" was to locate and destroy enemy missile launch sites behind enemy lines.

                2.) Terrain - 90% of a time we are having our practice fights in a rough, rocky terrain, filled with low/middle vegetation (about the height of an average man), typical of Mediterranean area. Also, pine forests filled with the same kind of thick vegetation, similar to those in North America. Protection from thorns is vital here, as well as solid boots that can protect your ankle if you step into a tricky hole between razor-sharp rocks.

                What I'd like to know is this:

                1.) In one post, I read about Camelbak hydration systems. One soldier (I forgot his nick name, sorry) said they tend to burst, so it's a good idea to have a canteen at hand. I was wondering, how is it possible for Camelbak to burst? My Camelbak hydration system is protected inside a small Camelbak backpack (M.U.L.E.). I know it will burst if hit by a bullet or a shrapnel, but what if you use a standard Camelbak bladder, with a backpack worn over it? Is it possible for bladder to burst due to the weight of the backpack (if you're wearing, for example, a larger 24-hours backpack) pressuring it? I often wear it that way, so I can drop my backpack easily if I have to move fast to engage the "enemy", and then retrieve it later. Am I the only one who does that?

                2.) Do US soldiers ever wear load bearing systems (belt kits)? I find it extremely practical to NOT have a standard assault vest/chest rig on me during long marches and sneaking through bushes. I'm talking about scouts, of course, not grunts... Here's my loadout... It's a work in progress, but I'd like to hear from you if I'm on the right track with this...

                - Molle belt kit with shoulder straps.
                - 4 double full lid magazine pouches with buckles (buckles are silent, and also reliable when it comes to protecting your mags). I never wear CQB pouches, simply because I realized it's a good way to lose your mags in the forest.
                - Source 3L hydration system.
                - Radio pouch, I keep it on my left shoulder strap. It sometimes gets in the way when I have to fire from my left shoulder, but hey...
                - 2 "space saver" pouches for extra ammo, extra socks, gloves, etc.
                - 1 canteen pouch for snack bars and an extra 0.5L bottle of water.
                - 1 large medic pouch for some basic first aid, also some other extra stuff I like to have with me, such as fire starter/cigarette lighter, spare protective glasses, flashlight, etc.

                Here's the problem...

                I am thinking of getting 2 grenade pouches, and an extra canteen pouch. In your opinion, should I even bother with the grenades (I'm not using grenades in airsoft, but I'm using dummies and rocks in order to increase the weight, since I'm trying to keep it realistic)? I read about soldiers carrying no more then 2 or 3 grenades with them, depending on the mission. If I wear 4 magazine pouches, I may have to sacrifice some extra items for the sake of extra ammo.

                Any toughts?

                Thanks for your help!
                As a Canuck I'll give you a few (quite similar to US) training ideas.

                May I ask what is the prevention from joining the armed forces?

                For footwear I am sure you will have some surplus store to find combat boots, and i will try to stress go for wet weather if possible, won't forget my fellow private who decided to wear non-issued boots the weekend we were in trenches and it rained for a good 30 some hours. I was still soaked but my feet looked alot better.

                I haven't used camel pack personally, but from what i have seen for the most part it should be fine, just be wary that there isn't too much pressure. Drinking from my 1L canteen has usually been suffice, with an extra 3L in my bag when needed. Given there were always water jerries to refill when needed.

                I'm curious about these 'shoulder radio pouches'. My experience with the radio is a perfectly rectangle 20lbs of pain. taking up much of the room in my pack I'd walk the patrol with it digging in my back the whole way through.

                As said with the medical kit, all you should really need is a bandage, tourniquet, and a pair of latex gloves. everything else should probably be used with proper medical instruction, and therefore probably unneeded.

                2 grenande and 4 magazines sound right, given I have only used a chest rig that sounds alright.

                My advice is to go out with a few friends and camp rough for a weekend. some key would be only bring what you carry, and at night have sentry shifts with at least 1 person awake at all times, go for a 10-15 km hike both days . with no power or anything it can be quite more difficult than expected.

                For the following trip in addition to the usual kit, bring a camp stove, tent, sleeping bags, map+compass, food that can last a weekend.

                A basic plausible set up would be to depart your vehicles at 6-7pm set up your spot, with a tent, and a camp stove. No fires, they are easy to see at night. with things set up and a latrine - 50m away from camp minimum. bunker down. make a very set path to walk on, nobody is allowed to just aimlessly walk around as it disturbs to much ground, a set route from camp/stove - latrine.

                Depending on how many you have split up the night into shifts for sentry. Next morning eat a break-feast and get ready for your first activity/hike whatever until lunch. go for the other after lunch. something possible is a light patrol in the morning, and use what you see to plan in the afternoon a larger patrol. After supper either retire for the evening (sentry/BS at camp) or if you've done it a few times try a small night patrol (BE CAREFUL NOT TO GET LOST!!)

                In the Sunday morn you have time for one last excursion before packing it in around noon. If you enjoyed it, and/or thought it was too easy go harder/longer in the future. some additional possibilities are, make all lights have red filters, no lights at all except to check maps, no sleep except allotted time at night, no stove at all.
                God didnít create evil. Evil is the result of when man does not have God's love in his heart.It's the cold when there is no heat.The darkness that comes when there is no light

                Comment


                • #9
                  You should be in MOPP II at all times, and don't forget to camo up, even if you are a tank gunner and never leave the turret, also be sure to find the most useless piece of equipment you would never ever need, it should weigh at least 5 pounds (2.2 kilos) and should be required to be on your person at all times. Realism to the t.

                  Also be sure to break radio silence every hour to send a message to higher that nobody has lost a weapon, nods, PLGR, or 5 pound useless item.
                  Кто там?
                  Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
                  Tunis is a Carthigenian city!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oh and one of your grenade pouches should be completely full of wonderfully helpful cards with often conflicting ROEs given down by Division, Brigade, Battalion, and Company, cards with instructions on how to deal with the media, cards with local customs, cards with basic phrases in the local dialect, and cards with pictures of IEDs. The total weight of theses cards is in excess of 13 pounds and if used in unison are known to deflect rounds up to 14.5mm.
                    Кто там?
                    Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
                    Tunis is a Carthigenian city!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Josh, stop it man, I'm on the floor....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Golani View Post
                        Josh, stop it man, I'm on the floor....
                        Then I won't even get into 550 cord tie downs. FOR EVERYTHING.
                        Кто там?
                        Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
                        Tunis is a Carthigenian city!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ah yes, and just to expound on Josh's theme if you're going for realism:

                          You should make sure that your gas mask is on your hip at all times, using the issued case which was designed back in WWII and has not been changed since despite huge improvements in ergonomics. This despite gas attacks being the least common and least likely way to die in war since WWI.

                          Your pack should have a tent, full sleep system (green bag, black bag, bivy sack), poncho and liner, extra cammies, extra boots, three sets of skivvies, three pairs of socks, extra rank insignia, no fewer than three complete MREs, and the equivalent of a case of water. On your pack you must have a rolled iso-mat, no matter how bleeding pointless it is. If your pack weighs in at less than forty kilos, you need to find another suitably pointless object to add to it to increase said weight. This pack cannot be left at base camp, but can be left at an intermediate camp if you provide adequate gear watch.

                          Your daypack will attach to this and contain an additional hundred and fifty rounds of ammo or equivalent, additional two frag and one smoke grenade or equivalent weight, two canteens of water, extra pair of socks, two rolls of charmin, one full MRE, two snack bars, and a 20lb radio (if you have the radio).

                          Your first grenade pouch is full of aforementioned cards. The second is where you're going to hold your cigarettes or dip and a lighter. You're also going to need a flashlight and a fistful of glow sticks, even if you're only on a day op.
                          Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
                            Then I won't even get into 550 cord tie downs. FOR EVERYTHING.
                            Geez, even I forgot that. Wow, and I've only been out just a little while, haven't I?
                            Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Make sure to pack only the most useful chem lights - the ir ones, because if you use any other kind, a sniper will kill you, even if inside a tank. Enemy snipers are that good. Also be sure to be clean shaven by 0630, even if on a mission. If you ain't shavin' you ain't trainin'. The ability to walk/ride/fight and shave simultaneously is the single most important skill for the modern warfighter. There will be a journalist on site at your objective before you assault it, so be sure to look your best at all times.
                              Кто там?
                              Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
                              Tunis is a Carthigenian city!

                              Comment

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