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Is there any weapon that can penetrate 1000mm of RHA or more ?

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  • Is there any weapon that can penetrate 1000mm of RHA or more ?

    Has there been any ATGMs, APFSDS, or HEAT that can penetrate 1000mm of RHA or more ?

    And if there isn't, What are some high values of such weapons ?

  • #2
    PARS 3 1000mm +

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Hurricane93 View Post
      Has there been any ATGMs, APFSDS, or HEAT that can penetrate 1000mm of RHA or more ?

      And if there isn't, What are some high values of such weapons ?
      The Russian Kornet missile can defeat reactive armor plates and then still penetrate 1200mm of RHA. This missile is greatly feared by countries like Israel or USA. I don't know if Hizballah has kornets as alleged by Israel but if it does then this missile will prevent IDF tanks from operating using their usual tactics.


      "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
      --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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      • #4
        I don't know if Hizballah has kornets as alleged by Israel but if it does then this missile will prevent IDF tanks from operating using their usual tactics.
        Most of the reports I've seen attributed Israeii tank caualties in 2006 to Kornet's as part of a combined anti-armour doctrine by Hizbullah. However, this was also due to pretty poor IDF use of is tanks.
        History is not tragedy; to understand historical reality, it is sometimes better to not know the end of the story.

        Pierre Vidal-Naquet

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MonsterZero View Post
          The Russian Kornet missile can defeat reactive armor plates and then still penetrate 1200mm of RHA. This missile is greatly feared by countries like Israel or USA. I don't know if Hizballah has kornets as alleged by Israel but if it does then this missile will prevent IDF tanks from operating using their usual tactics.
          True, but their effect is likely to be diminished by active defense systems like Trophy.

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          • #6
            True, but their effect is likely to be diminished by active defense systems like Trophy.
            Likely to be standard on Merkava 4s and Namers (though the latter may receive Iron Fist).
            History is not tragedy; to understand historical reality, it is sometimes better to not know the end of the story.

            Pierre Vidal-Naquet

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            • #7
              It's always hard to judge a missile's effectiveness based on its usage against the Israelis. Mostly because Israeli tactics are tank-heavy, and their armor divisions seemingly bred to be hyper aggressive and all about operating without enough infantry cover. That's what bit them in the butt at the start of Yom Kippur as well. Some of the best tankers in the world, no doubt. But other nation's tankers, like the US and Brits, tend to let the infantry develop the situation more before getting into the action. In a war against say, Egypt, the tank doctrine works...the open desert is their sea. In the 06 war, the doctrine is not as effective, as it's really an infantry fight with tanks playing an occasional firepower support role at medium-long range.
              Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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              • #8
                That's what bit them in the butt at the start of Yom Kippur as well...In the 06 war, the doctrine is not as effective, as it's really an infantry fight with tanks playing an occasional firepower support role at medium-long range.
                The orignal fire and movement doctrine might have worked in '06 if they had stuck to it. Instead, CAST LEAD was a series of small, poorly supported attacks straight in to Hizbollah’s main defensive positions based on the premise of effective air cover and seriously underestimating enemy capabilities. Heading to Bint Jbeil rather played to the opposition strengths when the alternative plan - heading to the Litani and then squeezing Hizbullah from the north and east - was much more traditional IDF thinking.
                History is not tragedy; to understand historical reality, it is sometimes better to not know the end of the story.

                Pierre Vidal-Naquet

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bluenose View Post
                  The orignal fire and movement doctrine might have worked in '06 if they had stuck to it. Instead, CAST LEAD was a series of small, poorly supported attacks straight in to Hizbollah’s main defensive positions based on the premise of effective air cover and seriously underestimating enemy capabilities. Heading to Bint Jbeil rather played to the opposition strengths when the alternative plan - heading to the Litani and then squeezing Hizbullah from the north and east - was much more traditional IDF thinking.
                  Cast lead was action against Gaza in 2008, not Lebanon 2006...

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                  • #10
                    Cast lead was action against Gaza in 2008, not Lebanon 2006...
                    Apologies, so it was. My bad.
                    History is not tragedy; to understand historical reality, it is sometimes better to not know the end of the story.

                    Pierre Vidal-Naquet

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MonsterZero View Post
                      The Russian Kornet missile can defeat reactive armor plates and then still penetrate 1200mm of RHA. This missile is greatly feared by countries like Israel or USA. I don't know if Hizballah has kornets as alleged by Israel but if it does then this missile will prevent IDF tanks from operating using their usual tactics.

                      Don't you think that the Russians are exaggerating about this penetration value since no US missile is even close ?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hurricane93 View Post
                        Don't you think that the Russians are exaggerating about this penetration value since no US missile is even close ?
                        Manufacture claims should always be taken with salt, but the fact that Israeli reports suggest it was causing severe damage and caualties to Merkavas indicate that it is effective under the right conditions whatever its theoretical armour penetration might be.
                        History is not tragedy; to understand historical reality, it is sometimes better to not know the end of the story.

                        Pierre Vidal-Naquet

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bluenose View Post
                          Manufacture claims should always be taken with salt, but the fact that Israeli reports suggest it was causing severe damage and caualties to Merkavas indicate that it is effective under the right conditions whatever its theoretical armour penetration might be.
                          Great, but now I have another question, by saying a missile is capable of penetrating 700mm of RHAe or so, does that literally mean that if it is tested against real 700mm block of RHA it will go through or these numbers are only used to compare anti-tank weapons ?

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                          • #14
                            Great, but now I have another question, by saying a missile is capable of penetrating 700mm of RHAe or so, does that literally mean that if it is tested against real 700mm block of RHA it will go through or these numbers are only used to compare anti-tank weapons ?
                            I guess it depends on the company and the test. I suspect there is often a caveat of 'equivalent to xxxmm of a particular armour compound.

                            Someone else probably has better knowledge of the test procedure.
                            History is not tragedy; to understand historical reality, it is sometimes better to not know the end of the story.

                            Pierre Vidal-Naquet

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hurricane93 View Post
                              Don't you think that the Russians are exaggerating about this penetration value since no US missile is even close ?
                              No, because Russian missile technology has maintained a clear advantage over similar Western products for decades. The Russian lead is clear in all applications: air-to-air missiles, surface-to-air missiles and anti-tank missiles.

                              Interestingly enough, the same was true for aviation armament in the 20th century when the Russians deployed revolutionary automatic cannons and revolutionary machine guns like the ShKAS. Meanwhile, Western nations settled on the .30 cal Browning design from WWI as well as a 20mm Hispano cannon design, also from WWI, and continued using those obsolete systems into the 1950s.

                              The Russians tend to build superior firearms and missiles, a claim supported by Western armament experts like Bill Gunston from the UK.

                              There are exceptions of course. When the Soviets captured the first Sidewinder air-to-air missile in the 1950s the guidance technology was so superior to Soviet ideas the Russians couldn't believe what they were seeing. They quickly reverse-engineered the missile and deployed it as the K-13. Of course they learned a lot in the process.
                              Last edited by MonsterZero; 28 Aug 12, 10:13.

                              "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
                              --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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