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Insurgent Groups with Tanks/Aircraft

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  • Insurgent Groups with Tanks/Aircraft

    Does anyone know if any insurgent/guerrilla movements have or had armor or aircraft? I know the Tamil Tigers had a few small planes, and mutinying troops (as in Syria) sometimes have tanks, but does anyone know of any other examples, such as the Viet Cong/Viet Minh, Al Qaeda, etc.? I doubt that it would be easy for them to operate such vehicles (lack of training, spare parts, fuel, maintenance, etc.), so my guess is that very few have any.
    Last edited by BCap; 31 Mar 12, 17:11. Reason: Title Error
    "The Bangalore Torpedo was 50' long and packed with 85 pounds of TNT and you assembled it along the way. By hand. I'd love to meet the ******* who invented it."

  • #2
    Originally posted by BCap View Post
    Does anyone know if any insurgent/guerrilla movements have or had armor or aircraft? I know the Tamil Tigers had a few small planes, and mutinying troops (as in Syria) sometimes have tanks, but does anyone know of any other examples, such as the Viet Cong/Viet Minh, Al Qaeda, etc.? I doubt that it would be easy for them to operate such vehicles (lack of training, spare parts, fuel, maintenance, etc.), so my guess is that very few have any.
    Yes, I think the VC, (although I may be mixing them with the NVA) used old Russian tanks, T-34, T-54, BTR Personnal Carriers, etc. These were mostly used in set piece battles like Khe Sanh and the fall of South Vietnam in '75 following the US withdrawal.
    You, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace, after having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

    -- Ataturk

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    • #3
      I think it was indeed the NVA who had them.
      "The Bangalore Torpedo was 50' long and packed with 85 pounds of TNT and you assembled it along the way. By hand. I'd love to meet the ******* who invented it."

      Comment


      • #4
        I believe that the NVA used PT-76 tanks against the Marines at Khe Sanh and against Army Special Forces.

        Comment


        • #5
          2 incidents come to mind-

          1. PFLP acquired T-55 tanks, which the IAF destroyed 4 days prior to the withdrawal from Lebanon:
          http://www.iaf.org.il/571-19373-he/IAF.aspx

          2. A Hamas attack on "Kerem Shalom" checkpoint, employing several vehicles painted to look Israeli and one BRDM 2 that was confiscated from the P.A and was suppose to be used as evacuation vehicle for kidnapped IDF soldiers/bodies:
          http://www.laisrael.net/PageDisplay.asp?Artnum=5958

          P.S
          Sorry for the Hebrew source, but you know how it is...

          Edit:
          Do UAV's count? because Hezbollah has/had some:
          http://defense-update.com/2006/08/is...ttack-uav.html

          http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...crisis-208400/

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Golani View Post
            1. PFLP acquired T-55 tanks, which the IAF destroyed 4 days prior to the withdrawal from Lebanon:
            http://www.iaf.org.il/571-19373-he/IAF.aspx
            ]

            That would be the work of the Syrians, I suppose?

            Originally posted by Golani View Post
            What the? Tanks I can buy, but UAV's? I smell the Iranians and Syrians here...
            You, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace, after having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

            -- Ataturk

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mdbigdee View Post
              I believe that the NVA used PT-76 tanks against the Marines at Khe Sanh and against Army Special Forces.
              Yes. PTR-76, T-34/54 and several models of the BTR.
              You, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace, after having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

              -- Ataturk

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Crackshot View Post
                ]

                That would be the work of the Syrians, I suppose?



                What the? Tanks I can buy, but UAV's? I smell the Iranians and Syrians here...
                Actually, I have heard of the UAVs. I think it has to do with loading them with explosives and using them as a guided bomb/cruise missile (sort of like what was done with some Hellcats by the U.S. Navy in Korea to attack some bridge or something).
                "The Bangalore Torpedo was 50' long and packed with 85 pounds of TNT and you assembled it along the way. By hand. I'd love to meet the ******* who invented it."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Actually the Partisans under Tito had tanks. The Allies landed some on the coast. The Partisans also had some Axis tanks they captured. This would include Italian and ex-French tanks. Fuel and munitions were landed on the coast or air dropped.

                  There are some stories that the VC has captured some tanks from the ARVN and buried them in tunnels! Supposedly some were found by tunnel rats! Some depots in Vietnam also had discarded vehicles. I remember one Special Forces Camp had "found" a discarded M-41 tank. It had no engine or tracks but it worked just fine as a pillbox at the main gate! They were still able to fire the main gun and the coax mg.

                  The Afghan Resistance against the Soviets had all sorts of "captured" vehicles and even artillery. Sometimes the Red Army soldiers sold or traded tanks. The Afghans always had access to drugs and some money. Ex-Afghan Army deserters sometimes drove off in their vehicles.

                  A major problem with insurgent forces acquiring tanks is they are very vulnerable to air strike!

                  Pruitt
                  Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                  Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                  by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                    Actually the Partisans under Tito had tanks. The Allies landed some on the coast. The Partisans also had some Axis tanks they captured. This would include Italian and ex-French tanks. Fuel and munitions were landed on the coast or air dropped.
                    Titos forces received one tank brigade from western allies (with Grant tanks), and one from Soviet (with T-34 tanks). They also received complete squadrons of aircraft (Hurricane and Il-2) from same sources.
                    But it is not quite correct to put those examples here - at the time partisans grew into regular army.

                    But even before that, there were examples of partisans using tanks, and aircrafts.

                    Even at October of 1941, insurgents in Serbia (later to be divided to Partisans and Chetniks) attacked city of Kraljevo with two R-35 tanks.
                    Tanks were captured after that during battles, and used until there were pare parts. With capitulation of Italy there was more material.

                    First aircraft were acquired on May 23rd of 1942, when two pilots of Croatian air force flew away with two Potez-25 aircraft to liberated territory.
                    Several more aircraft were captured after capitulation of Italy.
                    Nice article here
                    http://members.tripod.com/~marcin_w/index-jpaf.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      IIRC, the Moroccan Rif rebels had several biplane aircraft piloted by mercenary crews but I don't think they actually saw combat. More kind of flaunting it in front of the Spanish.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Add Stuart tanks to the Partisan line up. I saw a picture of three such being driven off to join Tito. Keep in mind that Tito did not get Soviet equipment until he joined up with the Red Army. Tito got a lot of Italian equipment when the Italians surrendered. Two Italian Divisions even joined up with the Partisans! The British are the ones that gave Tito the best support. The Americans sent some as well.

                        Tito is supposed to have requested any aid at all from Stalin, but was rebuffed. There just was no Red Aircraft with the range to bring weapons. Tito even asked for a bomber or two to make a one way trip. Tito was having a problem explaining why all the aid was coming from the UK and the US.

                        One strange thing about the "rising" in Yugoslavia is the Germans did not have to start taking extra measures to fight Partisans until 1943. The Partisans were mainly going after Chetniks.

                        Pruitt
                        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                          Add Stuart tanks to the Partisan line up. I saw a picture of three such being driven off to join Tito. Keep in mind that Tito did not get Soviet equipment until he joined up with the Red Army. Tito got a lot of Italian equipment when the Italians surrendered. Two Italian Divisions even joined up with the Partisans! The British are the ones that gave Tito the best support. The Americans sent some as well.
                          Other captured armoured vehicles used by partisans were:
                          - L3/33 and L6/40 Ansaldo tankette
                          - Somua S35
                          - H-39 Hotchkiss

                          There are some interesting stories regarding use of italian tankettes:
                          Some of them were captured during January 1942. They were used in attacks on Ustashe positions. Due to lack of fuel, they were carried 10 miles on ox vagon!
                          Some years later, problems with fuel were still existing - tankettes had to be dug into field, and corn planted over it. With better situation, they were undug and put to use.

                          56 Stuart tanks were delivered in October of 1944. - at the time, partisans started to fight like regular army - not guerilla.

                          Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                          One strange thing about the "rising" in Yugoslavia is the Germans did not have to start taking extra measures to fight Partisans until 1943. The Partisans were mainly going after Chetniks.
                          Except Germans, occupying forces also had:
                          - Italian army
                          - Bulgarian army
                          - NDH (Croatian quisling) army
                          - Serbian Nedic (quisling) troops
                          - Chetnik units in italian service (MVAC)
                          Plus some other formation...



                          And no, during 1942. partisans mainly went after NDH, not chetniks - take example of Bihac operation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Crackshot View Post
                            Yes. PTR-76, T-34/54 and several models of the BTR.
                            But was NVA an insurgent force or a proper national army?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tuomas_ View Post
                              But was NVA an insurgent force or a proper national army?
                              The NVA was North Vietnam's regular army. The Viet Cong consisted of South Vietnamese guerrilla fighters.
                              "The Bangalore Torpedo was 50' long and packed with 85 pounds of TNT and you assembled it along the way. By hand. I'd love to meet the ******* who invented it."

                              Comment

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