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King Arthur - The Scottish Dimension

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  • King Arthur - The Scottish Dimension

    Was Arthur Scottish?

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/..._Lost_Kingdoms
    https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/sh...hur-conspiracy
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...finding-arthur
    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/377735.King_Arthur

    Certainly many authors think so.
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  • #2
    The Round Table, the Sword in the Stone, and the Lady of the Lake -are based on very real and still accessible places in Scotland.
    In this, the first full biography of Arthur, Simon Andrew Stirling provides a range of proof that Artuir mac Aedain was the original King Arthur. He identifies the original Camelot, the site of Arthur's last battle, and his precise burial location.
    Sounds fascinating, anyone here read them ?
    Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post



      Sounds fascinating, anyone here read them ?
      \the Sword in the Scone and the Lassie in the Loch?


      \still writing them.....
      The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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      • #4
        "The Round Table" in particular and of course the "very real and still accessible places in Scotland" associated with it, would be what I'm interested in.

        Presumably round tables were quite common, be it in Scotland or elsewhere, but strangely they rarely appear in mythology…

        It gives the Arthur Legend a "socialist" aspect if you will, a "band of equals" , quite strange for the hierarchical times it is usually dated to.

        "Sword set in Stone" and "Female appearing in Water" are quite "common" themes in fact

        https://allthatsinteresting.com/real-sword-in-the-stone

        Guidotti snickered at the Archangel’s request and stated that the task would be as difficult as splitting a stone. To prove his point, the knight thrust his sword into a rock and, to his surprise, cut through it like butter.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_of_the_Lake
        Last edited by Snowygerry; 04 Nov 19, 08:49.
        Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

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        • #5
          An old post from here: https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...nd-fiction-box

          Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
          The Scottish Connection

          Medieval Scottish Histories including Arthur:

          Andrew of Wyntoun: Orygynale Cronykil.
          John Lesley: De origine, moribus, ac rebus gestis Scotiae libri decem.
          John of Fordun: Chronica gentis Scotorum.
          Walter Bower: Scotichronicon.
          Hector Boece: Scotorum historiae.
          Joannes Majoris: Historia Majoris Britanniae.
          George Buchanan: Rerum Scotcarum historia.


          The Scots are less kind than the Welsh about their opinion on Arthur. For example, in some of the tales, he is the illegitamate son of King Lot of Orkney. Although Mordred and Gawain were Lot's legitimate heirs, they were too young to take the throne, and thus, as a matter of expediency, Arthur took the crown. However, this was on the understanding that upon Arthur's death, the throne would pass back to Lot's true heir, ie Mordred. When Arthur announces Constantine as his heir, Mordred rightly rebels.

          The Scots also have themselves allied to the British, and the Picts with the Saxons. This is odd, because the Scots were from Ireland, and thus the British kingdoms natural enemies during the 5th and 6th centuries. Almost certainly a case of rewriting history for propaganda purposes.
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          • #6
            Lifted this from the other thread :

            https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-Scotland.html

            The King's Knot, a geometrical earthwork in the former royal gardens below Stirling Castle, has been shrouded in mystery for hundreds of years.
            It's not exactly round though, but close enough


            "The finds show that the present mound was created on an older site and throws new light on a tradition that King Arthur's Round Table was located in this vicinity."

            Stories have been told about the curious geometrical mound for hundreds of years -- including that it was the Round Table where King Arthur gathered his knights.
            Attached Files
            Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
              "The Round Table" in particular and of course the "very real and still accessible places in Scotland" associated with it, would be what I'm interested in.

              Presumably round tables were quite common, be it in Scotland or elsewhere, but strangely they rarely appear in mythology…

              It gives the Arthur Legend a "socialist" aspect if you will, a "band of equals" , quite strange for the hierarchical times it is usually dated to.

              "Sword set in Stone" and "Female appearing in Water" are quite "common" themes in fact

              https://allthatsinteresting.com/real-sword-in-the-stone



              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_of_the_Lake
              Not to derail my own thread , but there is reason to believe Nennius's Historia Brittonum was a propaganda piece to help cement Merfyn Frych's reign as a legitimate king. Merfyn was an usurper, just as was Uther Pendragon in the tales, and there is evidence that Arthurs knights were the (mythical) heroes of various Welsh tribes. This was the first known time that a king would link himself to Arthur, but not the last, and in this case linked the knights to the other kings. Less socialist and more pragmatism.
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              • #8
                Was the Green Knight related to King Arthur ?Was there some sort of figure of history similar to that of The Green Knight?


                Sean Connery played the Knight in a 1980s film... while the film could have been better it had its moments.




                All of these sorts of tales of Christian chivalry , The Knight Swan, Robin Hood, King Arthur including Arthur pulling the sword from the stone, Richard the Lionhearts adventures...are pieces of history that I believe have shaped European Christian culture in a large way but these tales also are admired in Africa. What do folks here know of African Christian tales of the middle ages, what did North African Christians think of the Round Table, surely African Christians had their very own King Arthur and Robin Hood of the middle ages.



                Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                George S Patton

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                • #9
                  Nick the Noodle do you know anything of an Irish King Arthur?
                  Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                  Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                  George S Patton

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                    Was the Green Knight related to King Arthur ? Was there some sort of figure of history similar to that of The Green Knight?
                    Definitely yes, well not a historical figure as such, but certainly a literary figure….

                    And yet he was a man, and the merriest that might ride. His body in back and breast was strong, his belly and waist were very small, and all his features full clean.

                    And he was all clad in green garments, and fitting close to his sides was a straight coat with a simple mantle above it and well lined with gay and bright furs, as was also his hood hanging about his locks and round his shoulders; and he had hosen of that same green on his calves, and bright spurs of gold, that hung down his legs upon silk borders, richly striped, where his foot rested in the stirrup.

                    And verily all his vesture was of pure green, both the stripings of his belt, and the stones that shone brightly in his orgeous apparel, upon silk work, on his person and saddle; and it would be too tedious to tell you even the half of such trifles as were ..
                    Iirc Arthur attempted to have him assassinated, it's a long story, but it starts on a night just like this one

                    https://web.archive.org/web/20070119...a/poem/62.html
                    Last edited by Snowygerry; 05 Nov 19, 03:47.
                    Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                      Nick the Noodle do you know anything of an Irish King Arthur?
                      Yes, I have at least one book stating an Arthur candidate, King Arthur in Irish Pseudo Historical Tradition by Dane Pestano. Haven't read this for a while, but his Arthur is Mac Erca. Mac Erca or Maqi Ercias apparently means son of Ursus, or son of the bear, according to Dane.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
                        Not to derail my own thread , but there is reason to believe Nennius's Historia Brittonum was a propaganda piece to help cement Merfyn Frych's reign as a legitimate king. Merfyn was an usurper, just as was Uther Pendragon in the tales, and there is evidence that Arthurs knights were the (mythical) heroes of various Welsh tribes. This was the first known time that a king would link himself to Arthur, but not the last, and in this case linked the knights to the other kings. Less socialist and more pragmatism.
                        It's the beauty of our time, we have these sources at hand with just a few clicks, now if only we had time to read them all

                        https://www.yorku.ca/inpar/nennius_giles.pdf



                        Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                          Nick the Noodle do you know anything of an Irish King Arthur?
                          He was a President, I BELIEVE-\GETS MENTIONED around these parts, occasionally, - IIRC.....
                          The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

                            It's the beauty of our time, we have these sources at hand with just a few clicks, now if only we had time to read them all

                            https://www.yorku.ca/inpar/nennius_giles.pdf


                            Just re-read it. My memory is faulty. Apart from the battle list, its notes on Arthur are still telling. Arthur was no king.

                            Then it was, that the magnanimous Arthur, with all the kings and military force of Britain, fought against the Saxons. And though there were many more noble than himself, yet he was twelve times chosen their commander, and was as often conqueror.
                            Will have to dig up which source was used to legitimize Merfyn Frych's reign.
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                            Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                              He was a President, I BELIEVE-\GETS MENTIONED around these parts, occasionally, - IIRC.....
                              Arthur was probably no king, but the equivalent of a Dux, the highest military commander, but a step down from the civilian leader. He'd be a Patton rather than a Roosevelt.
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