Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Anne Neville and the murder of the Princes.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Anne Neville and the murder of the Princes.

    Was Anne Neville behind the murders of the Princes in the Tower?
    How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
    Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

  • #2
    Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
    Was Anne Neville behind the murders of the Princes in the Tower?
    Why do you ask?

    From what I know of her she was a devout young woman who suffered upheaval in her young life. As Richard's wife, there is nothing to suggest to me she was behind the murder of the Princes. I've never heard that even suggested before and I've read a great deal about Richard.

    She died in her late 20s having lost a son and seems to have had a fairly unhappy (short) life, although her marriage to Richard seems to have been a reasonably amicable one (despite the suggestion from some historians that he poisoned her - no proof to back that up). I think tuberculosis is the most likely cause, although we will never know for sure,

    I'm assuming you've read Philippa Gregory's 'The Kingmaker's Daughter'? It's a great read but a lot of it is speculation as so little is known about Anne. She was the last Plantaganet Queen but so little of her survives that to even get a glimpse of her character is very difficult.

    Where has the suggestion she had anything to do with the death of the princes come from?

    Last edited by Tuck's Luck; 14 Nov 18, 18:47.
    "COOMMAAAAAAANNNNDOOOO!!!!!"
    - Mad Jack Churchill.

    Comment


    • #3
      The fate of "the Princes in the Tower" has always been contentious, with the blame seeming to oscillate between Richard III and Henry VII.

      Why would Anne Nevill (e) ,who seem to have been a shadowy figure, be responsible ?
      "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
      Samuel Johnson.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Tuck's Luck View Post

        Why do you ask?

        From what I know of her she was a devout young woman who suffered upheaval in her young life. As Richard's wife, there is nothing to suggest to me she was behind the murder of the Princes. I've never heard that even suggested before and I've read a great deal about Richard.

        She died in her late 20s having lost a son and seems to have had a fairly unhappy (short) life, although her marriage to Richard seems to have been a reasonably amicable one one (despite the suggestion from some historians that he poisoned her - no proof to back that up). I think tuberculosis is the most likely cause, although we will never know for sure,

        I'm assuming you've read Philippa Gregory's 'The Kingmaker's Daughter'? It's a great read but a lot of it is speculation as so little is known about Anne. She was the last Plantaganet Queen but so little of her survives that to even get a glimpse of her character is very difficult.

        Where has the suggestion she had anything to do with the death of the princes come from?

        You are absolutely correct about my using Philippa's input. She stated Anne Neville attended every execution of a certain family when she could.
        How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
        Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

          You are absolutely correct about my using Philippa's input. She stated Anne Neville attended every execution of a certain family when she could.
          As much as I enjoy Philippa Gregory as 'a good read' and as much as I admire her for bringing some of history's forgotten women to the forefront through her novels .. I class her as a fiction writer. She does her research as far as it goes, but the rest of it is embellishment and author's license.

          She writes a rollicking good tale in the same mould as Eleanor Hibbert (aka Jean Plaidy/Victoria Holt) but there's not much in her books I would take as historical fact.

          In terms of documented history, there is nothing to suggest to me that Anne had anything directly to do with the deaths of the princes, and I doubt anything new is going to turn up nearly 600 years later, unless it comes from the pen (or keyboard) of a revisionist.

          "COOMMAAAAAAANNNNDOOOO!!!!!"
          - Mad Jack Churchill.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tuck's Luck View Post

            As much as I enjoy Philippa Gregory as 'a good read' and as much as I admire her for bringing some of history's forgotten women to the forefront through her novels .. I class her as a fiction writer. She does her research as far as it goes, but the rest of it is embellishment and author's license.

            She writes a rollicking good tale in the same mould as Eleanor Hibbert (aka Jean Plaidy/Victoria Holt) but there's not much in her books I would take as historical fact.

            In terms of documented history, there is nothing to suggest to me that Anne had anything directly to do with the deaths of the princes, and I doubt anything new is going to turn up nearly 600 years later, unless it comes from the pen (or keyboard) of a revisionist.
            This seems a reasonable biography of Elizabeth Woodville, mother of the twins:

            https://rebeccastarrbrown.com/2017/0...eth-woodville/

            I've never believed Richard III murdered the boys, he was always loyal to his brother, and you don't get rid of heirs, until you can produce your own.
            How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
            Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

            Comment


            • #7
              Regarding Wars of the Roses fiction, I've always enjoyed Conn Iggulden's works (surely a Nom-de-plume):Stormbird,Trinity,Bloodlines and Ravenspur.
              .

              Surely the most significant of the Queens of the period would have to be Margaret of Anjou.
              "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
              Samuel Johnson.

              Comment


              • #8
                For one, I've always wondered who else was complicit in the disappearance of the princes. Weren't their bones found buried in a staircase when repairs were underway at the Tower? Who buried them? Didn't the bodies stink when putrefaction set in? Was there ever any record of foul smells (other than the usual miasmas of the era) in the region where the bones were found?
                ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
                IN MARE IN COELO

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
                  For one, I've always wondered who else was complicit in the disappearance of the princes. Weren't their bones found buried in a staircase when repairs were underway at the Tower? Who buried them? Didn't the bodies stink when putrefaction set in? Was there ever any record of foul smells (other than the usual miasmas of the era) in the region where the bones were found?
                  Very thick stone walls in the Tower of London :- if, in fact, that's where they ended-up.
                  "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                  Samuel Johnson.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
                    For one, I've always wondered who else was complicit in the disappearance of the princes. Weren't their bones found buried in a staircase when repairs were underway at the Tower? Who buried them? Didn't the bodies stink when putrefaction set in? Was there ever any record of foul smells (other than the usual miasmas of the era) in the region where the bones were found?
                    That's a good point. Who ever was in command of the Tower would have been complicit in the murders.
                    How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                    Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Always assuming,of course that the brothers were,in fact, murdered in the Tower.
                      "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                      Samuel Johnson.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
                        The fate of "the Princes in the Tower" has always been contentious, with the blame seeming to oscillate between Richard III and Henry VII.

                        Why would Anne Nevill (e) ,who seem to have been a shadowy figure, be responsible ?
                        She was wife of the rightful king, Richard III. He was always loyal to Edward IV, despite it being known Ed IV was born out of wedlock. It may be that she could not bear anymore children, and killing the princes could have been done out of spite. It does appear he might of courting the princes mother or sister, and one could easily believe that said loyalty would have put Edward V on the throne as a result.

                        While I agree Philippa Gregory may be more fiction than fact, she has studied the period enough to have more insights into the period than most. If Amme Meville was at every execution of the Queens relatives, she is a prime candidate imho.
                        How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                        Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Great thread, Nick. Thank you.

                          Originally posted by Tuck's Luck View Post
                          She died in her late 20s having lost a son and seems to have had a fairly unhappy (short) life, although her marriage to Richard seems to have been a reasonably amicable one (despite the suggestion from some historians that he poisoned her - no proof to back that up). I think tuberculosis is the most likely cause, although we will never know for sure,
                          Have Anne Neville's remains ever been positively identified? I know that Richard III's body was recovered and identified a few years ago. I might be wrong, but I do believe that tuberculosis leaves some telltale scarring, visible even in bodies that have been deceased a very very long time.
                          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It were Richard dat did it!

                            Let's blame everyone but good old Dick! Even though he was responsible for their wellbeing. They disappeared on his watch, he had the motive and opportunity to get rid of them.

                            There are too many Richard fawners in the world for my liking, up to and including that bint who cried her eyes out when she found that he did indeed have a back deformity and effeminate bone structure, and it wasn't Tudor propagandist artists who doctored his likeness or lied in his portrayal by a certain Bard.

                            Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 21 Nov 18, 22:37. Reason: 's' in the wrong place.
                            ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                            All human ills he can subdue,
                            Or with a bauble or medal
                            Can win mans heart for you;
                            And many a blessing know to stew
                            To make a megloamaniac bright;
                            Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                            The Pixie is a little shite.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tuck's Luck View Post

                              As much as I enjoy Philippa Gregory as 'a good read' and as much as I admire her for bringing some of history's forgotten women to the forefront through her novels .. I class her as a fiction writer. She does her research as far as it goes, but the rest of it is embellishment and author's license.

                              She writes a rollicking good tale in the same mould as Eleanor Hibbert (aka Jean Plaidy/Victoria Holt) but there's not much in her books I would take as historical fact.

                              In terms of documented history, there is nothing to suggest to me that Anne had anything directly to do with the deaths of the princes, and I doubt anything new is going to turn up nearly 600 years later, unless it comes from the pen (or keyboard) of a revisionist.
                              Carola Oman, C. V. Wedgwood, Juliet Barker and Carole Divall are excellent writers and easily up with the best.
                              ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                              All human ills he can subdue,
                              Or with a bauble or medal
                              Can win mans heart for you;
                              And many a blessing know to stew
                              To make a megloamaniac bright;
                              Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                              The Pixie is a little shite.

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X