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Julius Caesar vs Attila the Hun

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  • Julius Caesar vs Attila the Hun

    Could Caesar's legions defeated the ravenous hordes of Attila? Caesar will lead ten roman legions, fifteen thousand numidian cavalrymen, two hundred fifty war elephants, and a hundred thousand Gallic auxillaries, while Attila will have the usage of twenty five thousand horsemen, twenty five thousand saxons, twenty five thousand franks, and seventy five thousand gothic barbarians. They shall fight on the fields of Normandy.
    Last edited by Czin; 06 May 10, 17:23.
    Standing here, I realize you were just like me trying to make history.
    But who's to judge the right from wrong.
    When our guard is down I think we'll both agree.
    That violence breeds violence.
    But in the end it has to be this way.

  • #2
    Hmm, I thought the Germans fought for both sides? Anyways, these figures are kinda crazy.

    Maybe the Huns could pull a Parthian-Carrhae like strategy but who knows. I'd say it relies heavily on the 12.5k Numidian cavalry's ability to defend the infantry and drive off the Hun cavalry.

    I'd say it's a close battle, but I would give the battle to Caesar simply because he was probably the better commander.
    Surrender? NutZ!
    -Varro

    Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death. -Sun Tzu

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Intranetusa View Post
      Hmm, I thought the Germans fought for both sides? Anyways, these figures are kinda crazy.

      Maybe the Huns could pull a Parthian-Carrhae like strategy but who knows. I'd say it relies heavily on the 12.5k Numidian cavalry's ability to defend the infantry and drive off the Hun cavalry.

      I'd say it's a close battle, but I would give the battle to Caesar simply because he was probably the better commander.
      Frankish Franciscas are very, very nasty weapons. I think the frankish soldiers under Attila could play a significant role.

      Note: The OP is fixed now.
      Last edited by Czin; 06 May 10, 17:22.
      Standing here, I realize you were just like me trying to make history.
      But who's to judge the right from wrong.
      When our guard is down I think we'll both agree.
      That violence breeds violence.
      But in the end it has to be this way.

      Comment


      • #4
        I wonder, have the Goths, Saxons, Huns, and Franks ever seen a war elephant? Or any elephants at all for that matter.
        Standing here, I realize you were just like me trying to make history.
        But who's to judge the right from wrong.
        When our guard is down I think we'll both agree.
        That violence breeds violence.
        But in the end it has to be this way.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Czin View Post
          Could Caesar's legions defeated the ravenous hordes of Attila? Caesar will lead ten roman legions, fifteen thousand numidian cavalrymen, two hundred fifty war elephants, and a hundred thousand Gallic auxillaries, while Attila will have the usage of twenty five thousand horsemen, twenty five thousand saxons, twenty five thousand franks, and seventy five thousand gothic barbarians. They shall fight on the fields of Normandy.
          With the size of the forces I would have to go with Caesar. Attilla's only trump, cavalry archers, become significantly less effective when bunched together due to large numbers.
          The roman artillery and foot archers would tear them apart before they were finally finished by the elephants.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by RepublicanGuard View Post
            With the size of the forces I would have to go with Caesar. Attilla's only trump, cavalry archers, become significantly less effective when bunched together due to large numbers.
            The roman artillery and foot archers would tear them apart before they were finally finished by the elephants.
            Cavalry archers can be very effective in large numbers. The Mongol cavalry archer armies often operated independently of their conscripted infantry. The Mongol horse archer armies numbered in the tens of thousands, and were regularly able to take on enemies many times their size. ie. defeating a army of European knights 2-3x their size in their raids on Europe.

            But then again, the Mongols had one of the best army command system nd organizational structure in the world before the modern era, whereas Atilla's cavalry would be a rabble in comparison.

            So yeh, Atilla and his commanders probably don't have the organizational to keep them all together as a coherent fighting force for complex maneuvers. But 50k horse archers armed with strong Hunnic composite bows are nothing to scoff at either...

            Artillery would cause a few casualties, nothing significant - it's mostly a psychological weapon. Roman foot archers would be no match for the Hunnic archers - unless they had somewhere to take cover from and engage in a battle of attrition. I don't know how a bow would fare against the hide of a war elephant. If the Hun bow can pierce through its skin, you'll have 250 uncontrollable elephants rampaging through the Roman's own lines. If not, then the elephants can certainly do huge amounts of damage but physically and psychologically.
            Surrender? NutZ!
            -Varro

            Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death. -Sun Tzu

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            • #7
              Very intriguing fictional battle my friend, since you want to make it fixed, I need some other elements which are missing...Weather (time of the year), therein (flat, hilly) and the Gallic auxiliaries (since they are such a sizable force) most of the Auxiliary was usually horse but if not, how many of them infantry?
              "No title of Nobility shall be granted."
              Article I of the Constitution of the United States

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              • #8
                The size of the forces involved makes this discussion rather silly...perhaps changing the forces to something more closely resembling historical reality would be more worth-while...
                Satis elouquentiae sapientiae parum

                Diadochi Wars GAME:http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=140484

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Legatus Augusti View Post
                  The size of the forces involved makes this discussion rather silly...perhaps changing the forces to something more closely resembling historical reality would be more worth-while...
                  Not so fast Legatus, I think that Czin is on to something...
                  That set is like test or puzzle if you like, to see who is paying attention to the detail 'coz if you do not, then you are screwed (it's like leaving your ass naked-they will be always somebody who will try to slip behind you and take advantage from it). If that is true, then I feel sorry for you, if he takes Stratego's place in the Minicampaign as Carthage and I wish him as an ally...
                  "No title of Nobility shall be granted."
                  Article I of the Constitution of the United States

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                  • #10
                    I came,I saw,I conquered.

                    End of discussion.
                    If the art of war were nothing but the art of avoiding risks,glory would become the prey of mediocre minds. Napoleon

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Legate View Post
                      I came,I saw,I conquered.
                      End of discussion.
                      Except he didn't.

                      History is written by winners...or people with very big egos and who liked to write autobiographies...
                      Surrender? NutZ!
                      -Varro

                      Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death. -Sun Tzu

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The logisitics required to allow these armies to function would have been too great in these ancient times

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Intranetusa View Post
                          Except he didn't.

                          History is written by winners...or people with very big egos and who liked to write autobiographies...
                          Except that the numbers given by the OP can only result in victory by Caesar.
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                          BoRG

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                          • #14
                            elephants are so damn useless. I think the Carthaginians were the only culture that used them effectively.

                            Even the Romans had trouble integrating them in their line, and Caesar crushed his political enemies in spite of them having elephants.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mr Mac View Post
                              elephants are so damn useless. I think the Carthaginians were the only culture that used them effectively.

                              Even the Romans had trouble integrating them in their line, and Caesar crushed his political enemies in spite of them having elephants.
                              India, Just, India. And why am I unable to edit my original post anymore? I wanted to trim the numbers to a tenth of what they are.
                              Standing here, I realize you were just like me trying to make history.
                              But who's to judge the right from wrong.
                              When our guard is down I think we'll both agree.
                              That violence breeds violence.
                              But in the end it has to be this way.

                              Comment

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