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The Sea People: who destroyed the Bronze Age civilisations?

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  • The Sea People: who destroyed the Bronze Age civilisations?

    Virtually all of the major civilisations around the Mediteranian were violently destroyed within an increadibly short period of time leading to a long "dark age". Increasingly we learn that this destruction was wrought by "the Sea People" who emerge from history as an increadibly destructive force capable of defeating all existing forces with the exception of ancient Egypt who defeated them, saving themselves from destruction.

    The cities they destroyed did not recover so the violence they used must have been absolute. They created no lasting civilisation of their own and have left no trace except ruins and a few desperate pleas for assistance from those where attacking.

    Egyptian records make it clear that the Sea People travelled with women and children so this must have been a sea going society, quite possibly with no home base at all.

    Who were these people, what brought them together in a way that they were all conquoring but could not keep them together in a way that they could seize and occupy cities?

    This was a time of frequent warfare so what were they doing that allowed them to destroy the significant enemy armed forces they faced?
    What would Occam say?

  • #2
    Any references to these destroyed cities and civilisations?

    Tbh this is the first time I've ever heard such a thing -
    Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

    Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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    • #3
      It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

      Косово је Србија!
      Never go to war with a country whose national holiday celebrates a defeat in 1389.

      Armored Brigade

      Armored Brigade Facebook page

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      • #4
        Man, there are more theory's on this than there are why Rome fell.

        I'm running on a perfect storm of events - some climate change, some population migrations, overly complex trade systems and a natural disaster or two at the wrong time.

        It's quite disconcerting to know that civilisation collapsed so thoroughly that only fragments of its cause remain.

        There is a really good podcast by Dan Carlin called "Darkness buries the Bronze Age" for any that are interested.
        Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

        That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

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        • #5
          I've always thought iron ended the bronze age -

          And as for the collapse being sudden I doubt it - when going solely by archeological evidence even a couple of centuries is "sudden".

          Any chance of a written version of that podcast by Dan Carlin?

          The battle-winning technology of these "boat people" could be as simple as that: Iron weapons instead of bronze.
          Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

          Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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          • #6
            I think the eruption of Santorini caused a tidal wave, ash buried areas and the local climate cooled. Ash and cooler temps could have killed that years crops. Then the farmers could stay home or take food from those with food! Enough people in the Mediterranean could have been displaced to cause chaos.

            Pruitt
            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

            by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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            • #7
              As far as I am aware the Iron Age came through the low slow recovery from the Bronze Age collapse, iron weapons were not available to the Sea People I am fairly sure.

              As to the sudden destruction of Bronze Age societies this is a matter of historical fact.

              There are several fragments of letters (actually written on clay) that explicity state things such as "the sea people have arrived" followed by silence in the archeological record and huge amounts of fire evidence.
              What would Occam say?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                I've always thought iron ended the bronze age -

                And as for the collapse being sudden I doubt it - when going solely by archeological evidence even a couple of centuries is "sudden".

                Any chance of a written version of that podcast by Dan Carlin?

                The battle-winning technology of these "boat people" could be as simple as that: Iron weapons instead of bronze.
                They (the collapsed civilisations) did have iron but I don't know how good the quality was. One of the theories as to why iron became the standard is because bronze required the very trade routes that collapsed. It is pretty rare to have deposits of copper and tin in the same area, so when everything turned to **** and custard people were forced to use iron because it was easier to obtain what was needed.

                No written transcript that I know of for the podcast. BBC also has a 'Dawn of the Iron Age' one that is pretty good from memory.
                Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

                Comment


                • #9
                  There are several fragments of letters (actually written on clay) that explicity state things such as "the sea people have arrived" followed by silence in the archeological record and huge amounts of fire evidence.
                  Sounds very interesting -

                  honestly while I have heard all the others like vulcanoes, tidal waves etc, I've never heard of the Boat People, any links?

                  Edit: got to go I'll make sure to revisit this one - grtz.
                  Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                  Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by billscottmorri View Post
                    There are several fragments of letters (actually written on clay) that explicity state things such as "the sea people have arrived" followed by silence in the archeological record and huge amounts of fire evidence.
                    Aye. There is one that was telling the Pharaoh (I think) all about how a sudden silence had come from this city here and that city there, and how the sea peoples were advancing here and here. The tablet was asking for help and was found in the oven that was baking it when the city fell. That's pretty sudden.
                    Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                    That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I vote for all of the above, including the Sea Peoples, but excluding Space Aliens...

                      If I had to bet on a primary driver it would be climate change and drought...

                      Late second–early first millennium BC abrupt climate changes in coastal Syria and their possible significance for the history of the Eastern Mediterranean

                      I had no idea that there were Bronze Age SUV's, since the IPCC, the Hockey Team and Al Gore have conclusively proven that climate change began when the first Chevrolet Suburban rolled off the assembly line...
                      Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Doctor View Post
                        I vote for all of the above, including the Sea Peoples, but excluding Space Aliens...

                        If I had to bet on a primary driver it would be climate change and drought...

                        Late second–early first millennium BC abrupt climate changes in coastal Syria and their possible significance for the history of the Eastern Mediterranean

                        I had no idea that there were Bronze Age SUV's, since the IPCC, the Hockey Team and Al Gore have conclusively proven that climate change began when the first Chevrolet Suburban rolled off the assembly line...
                        Can't you leave politics in relevant forum . Anyway nice article .

                        A memorial of Ramses III fighting the Sea Peoples exists:






                        They are also a possible cause for the sudden decline of the Hittites.
                        How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                        Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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                        • #13
                          Jokes aside,I wondered the same.

                          By acceptable logic,they were a group of people coming from various parts of North East Mediterranean (Sicily,Greece,Aegean and Anatolia) and that is acceptable,however I was puzzled how they succeeded to defeat Egyptians and Hittites).

                          Maybe they used slightly more advanced military tactics, slightly better land and naval (boat shapes,iron anchorages) weapons and had good doze of luck.

                          As far as I am concerned,they destructive power have been exaggerated.Neither Egypt or Hittites were erased from history,they even won some victories.Hittite empire disintegrated in several smaller states (which disappeared over not-so-short period),while waging war against powerful Assyrians to the east and Sea People on West.Maybe there was also some kind of internal conflict that weakened them even more,or maybe some kind of natural catastrophe in area (particularly dry years that mean little crop,and probably an earthquake) that forced Sea people into raiding and have made Hittites and Egyptians very week.

                          It was probably a series of various factors.Like for Roman Empire,it was not a barbarian military might subdued them,but combining effect of decline and barbarian migration to West.
                          It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.

                          Косово је Србија!
                          Never go to war with a country whose national holiday celebrates a defeat in 1389.

                          Armored Brigade

                          Armored Brigade Facebook page

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                          • #14
                            Ramesses II wrote this;

                            "The foreign countries (ie. Sea Peoples) made a conspiracy in their islands, All at once the lands were removed and scattered in the fray. No land could stand before their arms: from Hatti, Qode, Carchemish, Arzawa and Alashiya on, being cut off [ie. destroyed] at one time. A camp was set up in Amurru. They desolated its people, and its land was like that which has never come into being. They were coming forward toward Egypt, while the flame was prepared before them. Their confederation was the Peleset, Tjeker, Shekelesh, Denyen and Weshesh, lands united. They laid their hands upon the land as far as the circuit of the earth, their hearts confident and trusting: "Our plans will succeed!"

                            As you can see, he says that several Anatolian peoples, including the Hittites were defeated and burned by the invaders. Also, Cyprus (alashiya), Cilicia (Qode) and in Syria (Amurra).
                            The Sea Peoples, as we call them, which came from land and sea were a confederation of several tribes. There are various theories about who those peoples were.

                            http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/seapeople.htm

                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Peoples#cite_note-27
                            Last edited by unclefred; 21 Aug 12, 11:45.
                            "A common thug can kill someone, but it takes the talents of an intelligence service to make a murder appear to be a suicide or accident death." -- James Angleton, CIA, Chief of Counterintelligence.

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                            • #15
                              Outstanding post unclefred. Really informative.

                              I wonder what made the such an unstoppable force?
                              What would Occam say?

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