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Tokugawa Ieyasu vs Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden

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  • Tokugawa Ieyasu vs Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden

    In the age of Pike and Shot warfare, who would win between these two generals. Tokogawa's Samurai army vs Sweden's pike and shot armies that defeated the Spanish Tercios.

  • #2
    Both were innovators, but I think that Gustavus Adolphus had far more mobile artillery and therefor could concentrate more firepower. It would likely have been a very interesting fight.
    Lance W.

    Peace through superior firepower.

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    • #3
      What is amazing at this time period is that both armies developed along similar lines, independently.

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      • #4
        Gustav Adolf. World's most adaptable army.

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        • #5
          Swedish army in that era laid big emphasis on firepower and mobility. They had light mobile quite standardised artillery pieces, and bigger musketmen vs pikemen ratio than most armies of that era. Also swedish cavalry used very agressive attack tactics. When they closed in they fired their pistols once and than assaulted with cold weapons, contrary to more usual spanish influenced european cavalry tactics of that era.
          (In fact many of those cavalrymen were of finnish origin, and were called as hakkapelitas, which came from their warcry, HAKKAA P──LLE, it means roughly strike on
          Last edited by Tiberius Duval; 13 Oct 09, 16:01. Reason: typos

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Tiberius Duval View Post
            Swedish army in that era laid big emphasis on firepower and mobility. They had light mobile quite standardised artillery pieces, and bigger musketmen vs pikemen ratio than most armies of that era. Also swedish cavalry used very agressive attack tactics. When they closed in they fired their pistols once and than assaulted with cold weapons, contrary to more usual spanish influenced european cavalry tactics of that era.
            (In fact many of those cavalrymen were of finnish origin, and were called as hakkapelitas, which came from their warcry, HAKKAA P──LLE, it means roughly strike on
            In 1567 Takeda Shinjin said, "Hereafter, the guns will be the most important arms. Therefore decrease the number of spears per unit, and have your most capable men carry guns".

            In 1592, during the Japanese invasion of Korea, Japan fielded an army of 160,000 gunners.

            Japanese improvements on the Arquibuise were:

            1.) Serial firing technique (developed independently)
            2.) Larger calibers for increase lethality
            3.) Protective boxes to fire in the rain
            4.) Measured strings to fire at night

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            • #7
              Still short on field artillery. Provided the Swedes have one of their better artillery commanders on the job, Torstensson for preference, that could well be the decider.

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              • #8
                The real winner would be whoever got to witness it.
                If the art of war were nothing but the art of avoiding risks,glory would become the prey of mediocre minds. Napoleon

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                • #9
                  Gustavus Adolphus a more mobile army and better and lighter and more mobile artillery. The ships of Sweden too would be much better than the Japanese counterparts. Swedish cavalry relied much more on shock tactics which made it devastatingly effectively. This one goes to the Swede!
                  First Counsul Maleketh of Jonov

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