Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Trajan's Rome vs Army of Northern Virginia

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Trajan's Rome vs Army of Northern Virginia

    Could General Lee's army, pre battle of Chancellorsville, conquer Rome during Trajan's reign.

    Let's say the army starts in Spain and marches to Rome.

  • #2
    Probably have a bit of a problem as gunpowder/cordite not yet invented, and I doubt the Confederates would have had much training with swords and such stuff.

    Not too sure where this thread should go, but certainly not in this forum .
    How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
    Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

    Comment


    • #3
      Maybe I'm not imaginative enough, but I don't see how it's possible to compare these two...
      Surrender? NutZ!
      -Varro

      Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death. -Sun Tzu

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
        Could General Lee's army, pre battle of Chancellorsville, conquer Rome during Trajan's reign.

        Let's say the army starts in Spain and marches to Rome.
        Well, here is my take on the scenario.

        General Lee's Army of Nothern Virginia, approximately 60 000 men, finds itself magically teleported to Spain 112 AD. If I remember correctly Rome is at peace at this time and at its greatest geographical extent.

        General Lee is as confused as anyone but understands that his army looks to him for leadership. This he makes it his mission to overthrow the Roman empire and replace it with something a bit more appealing to the Confederacy 1862. With their 19th century knowledge they hope to create a better, more moral (to their mind) Roman Empire -possibly even uniting the world into one nation. His troops, having nowhere else to go, accept this. Jackson interprets the situation as divine interference and thinks the Army of Nothern Virginia have a divine mission to rewrite historu.

        They march on Rome and cities fall very rapidly, scared and impressed with their gunpowder weapons. [For the purpose of this scenario I am going to ignore how fast their gunpowder goes bad and how much ammunition they carried.] Realising that his strength to some extent is based on a bluff Lee needs to march on Rome quickly and coup-like. Cities surrender quickly when they see what is cannon can do to city walls (not that all cities were walled at this time). Local rulers accept him as their new lord without question but are less than happy with his political agenda: Christianity as state religion and freedom for all white slaves. Slaves (at least the slaves that imagine they count as white -this is tricky in the Mediterranean) and Christians are enthusiastic but everyone else thinks the strage warlord from across the great ocean is just weird. Lee's ability to gather support is also limited by the fact that no one in his army speaks the local languages and only a few speak Latin (and they do so very poorly). Moving 60 000 people accross Europe is difficult at any time but when you know very little about the world you are passing through it is much more difficult. Lee does not recruit sympathetic locals due to the difficulty of supplying the troops he already has. If Lee had the bad luck to arrive during the wrong season it might be impossible to find enought food on the march. He commendeers some ships to help him with supply but organisation is tricky due to difficulty of communication with the locals.

        Trajan uses Fabian methods against these weird enemies trying to understand how they work. After many skirmishes to slow their advance he comes to the correct conclusion that Lee's troops have missile weapons with great range, accuracy and psychological effect. However the rate of fire is not so impressive and they are vulnerable to close combat (no armour, no shield and only a clumsy spear to fight with and very little experience in real melee -bayonets only accounted for 1% of the fatalities during the civil war). He decides to keep harrassing the enemy and employ Fabian methods until Lees troops arrive to the other side of the Alps. He attempts to ambush them so the enemy does not have so much use of his superiour missile weapon. This fails due to Longstreets competent reconaissance. Trajan must fight in the open, but his enemy is in pretty bad shape after so much marching and insufficient supply.

        Using weapons captured during the skirmishing he explains to his troops how the musket works and tries to limit their psychological effect. [I assume Trajan has not figured out that gunpowder is vulnerable to wet weather and that he should attack during wet conditions.] Trajan encourages his troops to close with the enemy as soon as possible. Unusual for the Romans they jog to contact with the enemy even if that means they arrive in some disorder in order to minimize the time the enemy has to shoot at them. They take casualties but keep coming. Not used to enemies rushing to melee, most of Lee's regiments break, many even before contact. Those that do fight in melee find themselves fighting enemies much better equipped, experienced and trained for close combat.

        Lee manages to organize some troops into a retreat and routing troops rally to him again during the night and the following day.

        Trajan, fearing that if he makes the enemy desperate, they might put up much more of a fight and eager to harness the strange foreigners knowledge offers Lee terms if his men disarms and put their 19th century knowledge to use for the Roman empire they will be offered conditions similar to veteranii (a farm to live on) or a place in the Roman army if they prefer. Defeated and not having a martyr complex accepts the terms over Jackson's protests.

        With access to 19th century knowledge the future of the Roman empire looks better than ever.

        Lee lost because Trajan had time to figure out the weakness behind the impressive foreign army. If Lees army had materialised closer to Rome, the situation might have been different.

        Sensemaker
        Last edited by Sensemaker; 06 Mar 10, 15:24.
        It doesn't matter how much intelligence you have. What matters is how much intelligence you use.

        If it is stupid, but works, it aint stupid.

        Comment


        • #5
          Considering Lee is the Caesar of the Civil War, I'm sure he would have conquered Rome, given time and proper resources.
          Flavius Volusenus (Cicero) Rostra
          Dux Classis Gallicae

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Rostra View Post
            Considering Lee is the Caesar of the Civil War, I'm sure he would have conquered Rome, given time and proper resources.
            Yes but he does not have time or resources. He only has his army that are out of their waters in this world and Trajan is not going to let him be, and he has is fighting in Trajan's land which he knows very little of.

            Of course if we turn the tables and put Trajan in Kentucky in 1862 with his army, there is no way he could, by himself, win the Civil War for either side. He might contribute, though. Given rifles by one side or the other and maybe a few months to train with them his legions would make great civil war soldiers.

            If Lee had been born around year 70, I imagine he could have grown to be an outstanding Roman general.

            Sensemaker
            Last edited by Sensemaker; 08 Mar 10, 03:35.
            It doesn't matter how much intelligence you have. What matters is how much intelligence you use.

            If it is stupid, but works, it aint stupid.

            Comment

            Latest Topics

            Collapse

            Working...
            X