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  • Battle of Tours

    Today is the anniversaray of the Battle of Tours. I wanted to go visit the battle site, but I was routed onto a detour, so I wasn't able to visit the site. I'm lost now, so if anyone knows where this detour will take me, please let me know.

    http://www.thenagain.info/WebChron/W...ope/Tours.html

    "Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug" 'The Bug'

  • #2
    Do we know for sure where the battle took place? I read some time ago that we don't know for sure where it was.
    Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
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    "Never pet a burning dog."

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    • #3
      From the linked website...

      "For the Moslems, the death of their leader caused a sharp setback and they had no choice but to retreat back across the Pyrenees, never to return again."

      Isn't true. The Moslems returned to raid southern 'France' for years to come. They(Moslems) also held Narbonne for 40 years before being conquered by Pippin the Short.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by K_B View Post
        From the linked website...

        Isn't true. The Moslems returned to raid southern 'France' for years to come. They(Moslems) also held Narbonne for 40 years before being conquered by Pippin the Short.
        ...and they've been there in great numbers since the 1960s.

        OK, back to history.

        [Of Tours], the great German military historian Hans Delbruck said of this battle "there was no more important battle in the history of the world." (The Barbarian Invasions, page 441.) Had Martel failed, Henry Hallam argued, there would have been no Charlemagne, no Holy Roman Empire or Papal States; all these depended upon Martel's containment of Islam from expanding into Europe while the Caliphate was unified and able to mount such a conquest. Another great mid era historian, Thomas Arnold, ranked the victory of Charles Martel even higher than the victory of Arminius in its impact on all of modern history: "Charles Martel's victory at Tours was among those signal deliverances which have affected for centuries the happiness of mankind."[41] Louis Gustave and Chalres Strauss in Moslem and Frank; or, Charles Martel and the rescue of Europe said "The victory gained was decisive and final, The torrent of Arab conquest was rolled back and Europe was rescued from the threatened yoke of the Saracens." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_tours
        Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
        Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


        "Never pet a burning dog."

        RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
        http://www.mormon.org
        http://www.sca.org
        http://www.scv.org/
        http://www.scouting.org/

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        • #5
          I'm not fond of wikipedia. I prefer..

          The advance north to Poitiers was a raid or razzia, not a Moslem attempt to conquer this part of France. Thus, some historians have tended to overestimate the importance of Charles Martel's victory. On this see Zotenburg, "Sur les invasions Arabes," p. 557
          --"The Development of Southern French and Catalan Society, 718-1050", A.Lewis, p22.

          By the early eighth century, the Arab Muslim empire had reached the limits of its military and adminstrative viability and the wave of successful conquests was to subside - a turning point traditionally marked in the West by the battle of Poitiers in 732 or 733, the importance of which HAS BEEN GROSSLY INFLATED...
          -- "The New Cambridge Medieval History, Vol 1", by Paul Fouracre, p337

          After assembling forces at Saragossa he entered French territory in 735, crossed the River Rhone, and conquered and looted Arles. From there he struck into the heart of Provence, ending with the capture of Avignon despite strong resistance. 'Uqba b. Al-Hajjaj's forces remained on French territoy for about 4 years, carrying raid to Lyons, Burgundy and Piedmont. Again Charles Martel came to the rescue, reconquering most of the lost territories in two campaign in 737 and 739, except for the city of Narbonne, which finally fell in 759.

          The second expedition was probably more dangerous than the first to Poitiers. Yet its FAILURE put and end to any serious Muslim expedition across the Pyrenees, although RAIDS CONTINUED. And internal turmoil in the Muslim lands often made enemies out of their own kind
          --"Barbarians, Marauders and Infidels", p127

          Just to reference a few sources.

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          • #6
            as to location? as good a guess as any has been permeated by historians for generations; to whit the Loire valley somewhere on the road between Poiters and Tours...at least that's what the Islamists reported..... and as Mark Whittington maintains near the confluence of the rivers Claine and Vienne join.

            good point on the continued raiding long after the battle, ntl an epic turning point in theological and ethnocentric affairs... of Europe. Certainly in conjuction with the Hammer's victories @ Berre and Narbonne.

            best
            CV

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