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  • FIVE EYES

    What happens to the Five Eyes intelligence cooperation if there is a worry that one of the five eyes is suspected by the other four of leaking information to the enemy. By enemy I mean Russia. The Five Eyes refers to Canada, USA, Britain, NZ, and Australia who cooperate on signal intelligence. It has it's roots in just after WW2 when these nations who trust each other pool their information. The Five Eyes arrangement was never really widely known about until the 1990's. The arrangement makes sense to me. Mind you, Snowden asserts that these five countries all spy on each other and then share information in order for host countries to obtain information about their citizens that they couldn't get domestically by legal means which might be true. I don't really have a problem with that so long that it isn't abused and it keeps us all safer. That isn't the OP. The OP is what happens to Five Eyes if the other four member states begin to be worried about sharing information if the President of one of those countries might be in cahoots with the Russians?

  • #2
    I should add that it puzzled me that the ex-MI5 operative travelled to Halifax to meet with McCain about the information that he had (that was leaked to Buzz-Feed) about possible Trump cooperations with Russia, Did he not trust going through normal channels with his information?

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    • #3
      If trust is not there with the Americans, I propose they be replaced with Germany.

      Serious, why not invite Germany into the Five-Eyes intelligence-sharing framework? Germany’s complicated domestic privacy laws make cooperation among its own intelligence entities and key government ministries exceptionally difficult. Inclusion of Germany would only add capability to existing members’ portfolios.
      "Never argue with an idiot. They'll just drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience" George Carlin

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      • #4
        Apparently the 1970s-1980s Australian intelligence community was so heavily penetrated with soviet moles that 5 eyes became 4, CIA went heavy with the black marker when sharing with Australia back then. Today Russia looks like the adult in a world were Western elites are taking their countries to hell

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
          What happens to the Five Eyes intelligence cooperation if there is a worry that one of the five eyes is suspected by the other four of leaking information to the enemy. By enemy I mean Russia. The Five Eyes refers to Canada, USA, Britain, NZ, and Australia who cooperate on signal intelligence. It has it's roots in just after WW2 when these nations who trust each other pool their information. The Five Eyes arrangement was never really widely known about until the 1990's. The arrangement makes sense to me. Mind you, Snowden asserts that these five countries all spy on each other and then share information in order for host countries to obtain information about their citizens that they couldn't get domestically by legal means which might be true. I don't really have a problem with that so long that it isn't abused and it keeps us all safer. That isn't the OP. The OP is what happens to Five Eyes if the other four member states begin to be worried about sharing information if the President of one of those countries might be in cahoots with the Russians?
          I'm fairly certain the other four eyes can recognise a disinformation campaign being waged by the fifth eye in an effort to make an unexpected president toe the company line.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Skoblin View Post
            I'm fairly certain the other four eyes can recognise a disinformation campaign being waged by the fifth eye in an effort to make an unexpected president toe the company line.
            Not if fifth-eye had swapped out the glasses of four-eyes.
            Flag: USA / Location: West Coast

            Prayers.

            BoRG

            http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8757/snap1ws8.jpg

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PtsX_Z3CMU

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            • #7
              I doubt there is complete trust now or ever has been. It is more a case of these being the closest culturally aligned nations, with similar laws and values. A shared history - see Churchill's 'History of the English Speaking People's'.

              Everyone cheats and lies a bit, we just do it less with each other.
              Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

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              • #8
                Interesting article...gotta do more reading on this before commenting. In the meantime...posting it for your reading pleasure.



                How Five Eyes cooked up a campaign to kill off Huawei

                https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opi...ill-off-huawei
                "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

                "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Persephone View Post
                  Interesting article...gotta do more reading on this before commenting. In the meantime...posting it for your reading pleasure.


                  Alexi Kosygin once warned us that " the Chinese buy two of everything - one to test to the limits, one to take apart bolt by rivet...

                  T
                  he only arm of the PRCPAF actively at war with the West- for now...is.....
                  HUAWEI
                  Last edited by marktwain; 06 Jan 19, 22:10.
                  The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                  • #10
                    Five Eyes
                    by
                    Walter de la Mare

                    Next
                    In Hans' old Mill his three black cats
                    Watch the bins for the thieving rats.
                    Whisker and claw, they crouch in the night,
                    Their five eyes smouldering green and bright:
                    Squeaks from the flour sacks, squeaks from where
                    The cold wind stirs on the empty stair,
                    Squeaking and scampering, everywhere.
                    Then down they pounce, now in, now out,
                    At whisking tail, and sniffing snout;
                    While lean old Hans he snores away
                    Till peep of light at break of day;
                    Then up he climbs to his creaking mill,
                    Out come his cats all grey with meal -
                    Jekkel, and Jessup
                    and one-eyed Jill.
                    The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by marktwain View Post
                      Five Eyes
                      by
                      Walter de la Mare

                      Next
                      In Hans' old Mill his three black cats
                      Watch the bins for the thieving rats.
                      Whisker and claw, they crouch in the night,
                      Their five eyes smouldering green and bright:
                      Squeaks from the flour sacks, squeaks from where
                      The cold wind stirs on the empty stair,
                      Squeaking and scampering, everywhere.
                      Then down they pounce, now in, now out,
                      At whisking tail, and sniffing snout;
                      While lean old Hans he snores away
                      Till peep of light at break of day;
                      Then up he climbs to his creaking mill,
                      Out come his cats all grey with meal -
                      Jekkel, and Jessup
                      and one-eyed Jill.
                      And this is relevant how?
                      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                      • #12
                        America would be better off to share intel with Israel, given that the Middle East is currently our area of greatest concern. Canada, Australia and New Zealand are not world players.
                        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Reimnitz View Post
                          If trust is not there with the Americans, I propose they be replaced with Germany.

                          Serious, why not invite Germany into the Five-Eyes intelligence-sharing framework? Germany’s complicated domestic privacy laws make cooperation among its own intelligence entities and key government ministries exceptionally difficult. Inclusion of Germany would only add capability to existing members’ portfolios.
                          Under May's deal with the EU we are going to have to share all intelligence with our German masters anyway. So anything any of the other eyes share with the UK will be automatically passed to the EU.

                          MI6 are quite concerned.
                          https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-m...warns-11603738
                          Last edited by Surrey; 12 Jan 19, 02:05.
                          "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            America would be better off to share intel with Israel, given that the Middle East is currently our area of greatest concern. Canada, Australia and New Zealand are not world players.
                            That's as of now.

                            But suppose the USA decides that the Southern Asia and the South China Sea is of especial concern (say) . Might not the input of Australia be of value, particularly as there are joint intelligence facilities at Pine Gap in Central Australia (which actually is of world-wide consequence) and at North-West Cape on the Australian Indian Ocean coast ?
                            "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                            Samuel Johnson.

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                            • #15
                              No agency shares everything. Everyone holds back bits and pieces just to be on the safe side.

                              Although I expect there's a lot more focus on terror groups than anything else these days.
                              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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