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  • FOB vs Fort

    Didnít know where else this topic might fit in.

    any way, are modern FOBs in Afghanistan
    ​​​​​​/Iraq analogous to forts of the American frontier?

    they both are fairly small garrisons, meant to provide control/stability via presence and force of arms of necessary.

    Am I the only one who has thought about that? And while I know that army bases are labeled as Ďfort whateverí is there a particular reason the term fort has fallen out of use?
    the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

    A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
    A man dies and leaves his name,
    A teacher dies and teaches death.
    Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

  • #2
    Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post
    Didnít know where else this topic might fit in.

    any way, are modern FOBs in Afghanistan
    ​​​​​​/Iraq analogous to forts of the American frontier?

    they both are fairly small garrisons, meant to provide control/stability via presence and force of arms of necessary.

    Am I the only one who has thought about that? And while I know that army bases are labeled as Ďfort whateverí is there a particular reason the term fort has fallen out of use?
    Not so much forts as armed camps.

    Tuebor

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    • #3
      The forts in the Indian wars were almost never fortified or in danger of attack (the Red Cloud War was an exception). The term 'fort' was simply an honorific for a permanent installation.

      The FOBs are most logistics centers; I don't recall if any have sustained a ground attack.

      The Vietnam fire bases were truly forts, being subjected to sieges and ground attacks on many occasions, and general built so that their artillery could dominate the surrounding countryside. They were also rather mobile affairs, which I believe is unique in military history.
      Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
        The forts in the Indian wars were almost never fortified or in danger of attack (the Red Cloud War was an exception). The term 'fort' was simply an honorific for a permanent installation.

        The FOBs are most logistics centers; I don't recall if any have sustained a ground attack.

        The Vietnam fire bases were truly forts, being subjected to sieges and ground attacks on many occasions, and general built so that their artillery could dominate the surrounding countryside. They were also rather mobile affairs, which I believe is unique in military history.
        Didnít Dakota Meyer earn his Medal of Honor when his FoB came under attack?
        the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

        A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
        A man dies and leaves his name,
        A teacher dies and teaches death.
        Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post

          Didnít Dakota Meyer earn his Medal of Honor when his FoB came under attack?
          No. It was an ambush.
          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

          Comment


          • #6
            There's a hierarchy of FOBs, COBs, COPs, outposts, bases, etc. IIRC, the terms used were different between Iraq and Afghanistan, but they were misused from the published standard in both places.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

              No. It was an ambush.
              Either way a quick google search shows FoBs have seen attacks
              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forw...g_Base_Salerno

              https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...-base.amp.html
              Last edited by General_Jacke; 09 Dec 18, 12:43.
              the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

              A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
              A man dies and leaves his name,
              A teacher dies and teaches death.
              Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post
                Interesting. Mostly indirect fire and explosives, but one ground attack that penetrated.

                No massed ground attacks ala Vietnam.

                But back to your topic, forts in the Old West were not fortified. And FOBs in Afghan mainly saw indirect fire.
                Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I can't speak for Afghanistan or the entirety of the Irag War but I can shed some light on FOB's during OIF III. Every FOB I knew of was formerly one of Sadam's many military bases or facilities so they were already fairly secure with perimeter fences and/or walls. We emplaced multi-layer defenses within that perimeter. Our biggest fear was VBIED's, which were constantly hitting our convoys, so we surrounded the buildings with hescos and/or jersey barriers to try and keep the car bombs and mortar fragments out. Our FOB got mortared roughly once a week which seemed to be the norm for FOB's. In the picture below you can see in a row of jersey barriers with a line of hescos behind them surrounding a TOC.

                  P1010006.JPG

                  The FOB gates were interesting, FOB's had either an M113 or an M88 ARV, normally an M88, acting as the gate. It would be parked across the entrance to the FOB and when a convoy or patrol rolled up they'd back it out of the way and then pull back across the entrance when the convoy/patrol had passed.

                  Also I'm kind of glad they were called FOB's instead of forts so we could call the slackers that never left them fobbits, although I'm sure REMF would have fit as well.

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