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LEADERSHIP ~ Getting Others to Follow

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  • 82redleg
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    I can teach you calculus, but that will not make you Stephen Hawking. I can teach you to play a cello, but you will not be Yo Yo Ma. Leaders are born, not made. If the ability isn't there, manuals and courses will not produce it. Instead, they will produce a cadre of pissy little martinents.

    I served under a wide variety of West Point ring knockers. I only ever met two that were true leaders. The best commander I ever served under was a Mustang. He could tell you to get screwed and you would actually look forward to the trip.
    You're confusing genius with effectiveness. A baseline natural ability is required to get a Hawking, a Ma, or a Merrill, Napoleon, Caesar, or Patton. But training, education, and experience can make both the average and the genius better. You can bet tha Hawking and Ma put in hours of study and application.Those same hours may not turn me into a Patton, but are likely to make me far more effective in the duties I perform.

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  • R.N. Armstrong
    replied
    I can agree that the best teacher in anything is experience some of which can be be taught--that's why we listen to veterans and mustangs.

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
    All the U.S. military services teach and have manuals on leadership.
    I can teach you calculus, but that will not make you Stephen Hawking. I can teach you to play a cello, but you will not be Yo Yo Ma. Leaders are born, not made. If the ability isn't there, manuals and courses will not produce it. Instead, they will produce a cadre of pissy little martinents.

    I served under a wide variety of West Point ring knockers. I only ever met two that were true leaders. The best commander I ever served under was a Mustang. He could tell you to get screwed and you would actually look forward to the trip.

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  • R.N. Armstrong
    replied
    All the U.S. military services teach and have manuals on leadership.

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  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Anyone can be taught to give orders. No one can be taught to lead. It is something only a few can do. Even fewer can do it really well.

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  • R.N. Armstrong
    replied
    Back in 1982, while attending the Command and General Staff College at Ft. Leavenworth, I ran across this quote on leadership, "Officers are composed of two kinds, teh water walkers and ice makers. The water walkers actually walk on the ice makers' products and the heads of other water walkers who have fallen through."

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  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by Salinator View Post
    You guys don't believe that some people are just Alphas - born to lead?
    There might be some; shades of Huxley's "Brave New World", ...
    ... but I'd suspect many go through life circumstances that shape them in that direction, when also not going through some training that enhances their original talent.

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  • Salinator
    replied
    You guys don't believe that some people are just Alphas - born to lead?

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  • G David Bock
    replied
    FWIW, from Time.mag. article;

    10 Lessons From History About What Makes a Truly Great Leader
    ...
    https://time.com/5713400/10-lessons-...=pocket-newtab

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  • G David Bock
    replied
    Another case of instead of start another thread, use one where it may fir, such as this one ...

    7 secrets to effective teamwork inspired by the greatest book ever written

    https://monday.com/blog/effective-te...aign=pockettab

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  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
    What's your background in leadership?
    Sorry I missed this and never got back to you. Excuse the brevity for now, but for a quick answer, there is the few years spent in Civil Air Patrol during my high school years which I mentioned up in post #3 here. There were also some occasions of lower-middle management at a few jobs/employment and a couple of ventures in self-employment/small business. I'll try to get back on the details of those later.

    Oh yeah, there's also some experience as a parent and grand-parent that are more current and may apply.

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  • R.N. Armstrong
    replied
    What's your background in leadership?

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  • G David Bock
    replied
    One rather crude index I've used over the years ... "Would you fall on a grenade to save that person~leader?"
    Assumption here is that they/him~her have characteristics rare enough to be unique and not rubber-stamped; i.e. worth preserving.

    I'm talking about the person~personality here, not the "status" of the office/position held.

    Over the years~decades I've had association with assorted leaders, private and public, many of whom amazed me they had gotten as far as they did, and left me wondering why they hadn't "fallen" by the wayside long ago. Not saying I'd engage in leadercide, except in very extreme circumstances (maybe) , but have known a few whom per "Darwin's Laws" should never have gotten as far as they had/did.

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  • R.N. Armstrong
    replied
    My favorite aphorism is "Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom". From experience, that does not necessarily mean the leader must have the wisdom, but to discern it among his staff, subordinate commanders, or other sources.

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  • MarkV
    replied
    "men will follow this officer - but only out of curiosity" allegedly an assessment made of a rather green WW1 British subaltern.

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