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LEADERSHIP ~ Getting Others to Follow

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Salinator View Post
    You guys don't believe that some people are just Alphas - born to lead?
    There might be some; shades of Huxley's "Brave New World", ...
    ... but I'd suspect many go through life circumstances that shape them in that direction, when also not going through some training that enhances their original talent.
    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

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    • #17
      Back in 1982, while attending the Command and General Staff College at Ft. Leavenworth, I ran across this quote on leadership, "Officers are composed of two kinds, teh water walkers and ice makers. The water walkers actually walk on the ice makers' products and the heads of other water walkers who have fallen through."
      Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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      • #18
        Anyone can be taught to give orders. No one can be taught to lead. It is something only a few can do. Even fewer can do it really well.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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        • #19
          All the U.S. military services teach and have manuals on leadership.
          Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
            All the U.S. military services teach and have manuals on leadership.
            I can teach you calculus, but that will not make you Stephen Hawking. I can teach you to play a cello, but you will not be Yo Yo Ma. Leaders are born, not made. If the ability isn't there, manuals and courses will not produce it. Instead, they will produce a cadre of pissy little martinents.

            I served under a wide variety of West Point ring knockers. I only ever met two that were true leaders. The best commander I ever served under was a Mustang. He could tell you to get screwed and you would actually look forward to the trip.
            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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            • #21
              I can agree that the best teacher in anything is experience some of which can be be taught--that's why we listen to veterans and mustangs.
              Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                I can teach you calculus, but that will not make you Stephen Hawking. I can teach you to play a cello, but you will not be Yo Yo Ma. Leaders are born, not made. If the ability isn't there, manuals and courses will not produce it. Instead, they will produce a cadre of pissy little martinents.

                I served under a wide variety of West Point ring knockers. I only ever met two that were true leaders. The best commander I ever served under was a Mustang. He could tell you to get screwed and you would actually look forward to the trip.
                You're confusing genius with effectiveness. A baseline natural ability is required to get a Hawking, a Ma, or a Merrill, Napoleon, Caesar, or Patton. But training, education, and experience can make both the average and the genius better. You can bet tha Hawking and Ma put in hours of study and application.Those same hours may not turn me into a Patton, but are likely to make me far more effective in the duties I perform.

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                • #23
                  Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw on Leadership.

                  A lecture he delivered before students of St. Xavier's College in late 1990's .

                  Sam Manekshaw Victor of 1971 India Pakistan war that created Bangladesh.
                  Captured around 99000 Pakistani Prisoners of War. Treated them most humanly.
                  A Gorkha officer.
                  A Zorastrian by ethnicity and Religion.
                  India's one of Most loved Military Leader.




                  The Lecture in Written form.

                  https://jeevanshudhawan.wordpress.co...aneckshaw/amp/

                  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Manekshaw
                  Last edited by vikram72; 01 Feb 20, 13:11.

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                  • #24
                    An excellent lecture:- thank you.
                    "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                    Samuel Johnson.

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                    • #25
                      This would seem to be a basic, and maybe implied a few places here;

                      How To Be a Leader That Inspires People to Change

                      Leadership is a character trait we can all cultivate. And filling a leadership role is about more than being assertive.

                      ...
                      EXCERPTS:

                      Look, being a leader has nothing to do with your job. Leadership is a character trait that we can all cultivate. In fact, I believe leadership is one of the essential skills that every person should have. Contrary to popular belief, I don’t think that leaders are born.

                      Yes, some people are naturally more dominant and assertive. But leadership is about more than those things. I know leaders who are introverted and soft-spoken. But how do you lead? How do you get people to follow you? How do you get people to listen to your ideas?
                      ...
                      There’s Only One Leadership Strategy


                      Everyone knows this. You can only lead by example. There’s no other effective way to inspire people.

                      If you want your team to be positive, you must be positive. The same is true for your family, partner, and friends. Leadership is about ownership. I like how former Navy Seals, Jocko Willink and Leif Babin, put this in their classic leadership book Extreme Ownership:
                      “The most fundamental and important truth at the heart of Extreme Ownership: there are no bad teams, only bad leaders.”


                      If you think that your team sucks, you suck. “But I’m not the leader or manager.” That’s what people often hide behind. So what? Remember how we talked about that leadership is not about titles?
                      ...
                      https://getpocket.com/explore/item/h...=pocket-newtab

                      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

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                      • #26
                        Leaders are neither born to the job, nor are they made for it....

                        They are APPOINTED.
                        They "grow into" the role.....or they are replaced.

                        What are leaders?
                        Final decision makers, nothing more.
                        So, what makes a good leader?
                        Simple....the ability to push forward decisions, the ability to PERSUADE, to make others follow along behind those decisions, whether they prove to be right or wrong.
                        So....a good leader, a 'great' leader, is only made obvious with hindsight. He/she is the product of the very success or failure of their decisions, something that is only possible with hindsight, with time elapsed between the decision making process, its execution, and the results that manifest themselves.

                        Some leaders achieve that level by sheer hard work....for example.... Marshal of France under Napolean I...Francois Joseph LEVEBRVE, "La Duc De Danzig".
                        The Marshal was present at a society reception, when a friend expressed no small amount of envy of the Marshal at the size and opulence of his estate.. Angered, Levebrve shot back, saying....

                        "Come down into the courtyard, and I'll have ten shots at you with a musket at 30 paces. If I miss, the entire estate is yours!!!"

                        His friend declined the offer. Lefebreve went on....

                        "I've had a thousand bullets shot at me from much closer range before I got all this!!!"

                        So, hard work is just as important as intrinsic ability, but the very ability to persuade is more important than both God given ability and hard work combined..

                        Furthermore, a leader must be more than a little bit of an OUTSIDER, aloof from his subordinates, and yet, part of the team as a whole. But, as Harry Truman was fond of saying, "The buck stops here". Once the individual that was part of the group becomes its leader or final decision maker, he must stand by those decisions, right or wrong, and be RESPONSIBLE for them.
                        A good leader will know intrinsically when to intervene in a debate and make a final decision, and when it is best to wait until more data is available, or a longer period of time has elapsed.
                        An excellent leader, furthermore will actively control the number of individuals within his particular group. Too few individuals, and the group becomes a "mob" very quickly with no sense of direction....Too many individuals and the group becomes far to concerned with a decision making process that cannot meet the needs of the group as a body politick. There are too many rivals for the leadership, too many self interested parties.

                        Also. by their very nature, decisions are on a very unstable structure, because the form of that structure is TRIANGULAR, and the three "legs" of a decision tripod are....
                        DESIRE...DATA...and DOUBT.

                        DESIRE brings the participants together to solve a problem..
                        DATA frames the parameters of the process...
                        DOUBT frames the questions that arise before a final decision can take place.

                        Remove any one of those three "legs", and the tripod itself collapses. That is, either no decision will be reached, or it will be the wrong decision, or the participants in the debate will either break up entirely or not come together at all

                        An excellent leader, though, must know one thing above all, and that is "When is it the right time to step down and pass the baton of leadership to my successor?"

                        Further, Napolean always felt that LUCK was probably the most important factor when appointing subordinate commanders. "Is he a lucky general?" he would ask, knowing quite well that innate ability and hard work can be pulled apart by this very lack of the Gods smiling upon you. Late in his reign, during the Campaign of 1813-14, Bonaparte was also heard to exclaim in sheer exasperation...

                        "God is on the side of the biggest battalions"

                        A sentiment that Joseph Stalin would no doubt agree with, and the present leadership of the Peoples Republic of China.

                        But they were and are running governments who were and are officially Atheists.

                        Ironic, isn't it?

                        Christopher
                        Last edited by Drusus Nero; 10 Jun 20, 10:20.
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                        • #27
                          Fascinating ideas and thoughts there.^^^^
                          Although in a few places you may be describing a "boss" rather than a "leader", and this is more than a semantic concept.
                          TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

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                          • #28
                            Interestingly, the ancient linguistic root of the word "to lead" means "to go forth, die"--somewhat indicative of a military leadership. Leadership has broadened into theories of leadership: "great-man or trait approach, situational approach, transactional approach and a prescriptive approach...." The latter concept of leadership comes from Ronald A. Heifetz's "Leadership Without Easy Answers"--probably the most thought-provoking writing on leadership that I have read. I watched him gain control by coming into the seminar, sit down without a word, and waited until everyone in group was quiet and focused on him. He was a psychologist who lectured in the public policy at the Kennedy School for Government and directed the school's Leadership Education Project.
                            Last edited by R.N. Armstrong; 16 Jun 20, 09:03.
                            Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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