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Tulip mania in Holland

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  • Tulip mania in Holland

    I find the tulip prices in Holland back in the 1600's to be fascinating. To me it's interesting to see how high the prices of tulips became and the effect of price of tulips impacted the economy of Holland and the effect the crash of the tulip prices had on Holland. It wasn't warfare, but since this thread mentions econmics I thought I would mention this.

    http://www.thebubblebubble.com/tulip-mania/

  • #2
    This came up as a reference during a financial program on how the media and markets interact. The author's opinion was that a key ingredient in the creation of market bubbles was mass media, in this particular case, the recent invention of the printing press. In order for a bubble to form, enough people need to know about both the product and the stories of recent financial gain to pump capital into the market.
    Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Sgt. Rock View Post
      I find the tulip prices in Holland back in the 1600's to be fascinating. To me it's interesting to see how high the prices of tulips became and the effect of price of tulips impacted the economy of Holland and the effect the crash of the tulip prices had on Holland. It wasn't warfare, but since this thread mentions econmics I thought I would mention this.
      I love that story!

      I think of it sometimes when I see current things that are over priced due to the lattest craze to latter crash in value. Once people think why the heck am I paying so much for a llama?

      In the U.S. in the last 30 or so years I have seen wild speculation in Llamas. And ostrichs and emus and their eggs.




      I new some one who had LLamas that were valued at up to $10,000. Their was a "LLama Market Crash". Suddenly These LLamas were worth next to nothing!
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
      Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

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      • #4
        One often over-looked factor in the recent housing market crash, the plethora of house-flipping shows on TV that made it look easy. Much easier than in real life.
        Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

        Questions about our site? See the FAQ.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by GCoyote View Post
          One often over-looked factor in the recent housing market crash, the plethora of house-flipping shows on TV that made it look easy. Much easier than in real life.
          Indeed. The media shapes public perception - but only seems able to understand that fully half the time.

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          • #6
            A lesson that is still pertinent today is the psychology of markets. Often in a market there is no 'true' value, the value is ascribed by the market based on what people are willing to pay. In this example, people totally lost a grip on reality as the market valued tulips more than houses. This happened largely through greed. Investors watched the value go up and concluded it would continue to do so and did not want to miss out.

            More recently the phenomenon can be seen in housing markets but even more so in the stock market because of its greater liquidity and volatility. Perhaps the likes of Twitter are today's tulips.
            Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

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            • #7
              I get the feeling these guys ancestors were around the time of the Tulip Bubble

              Jordan Belfort: Right. But if you can make the clients money at the same time, it's advantageous to everyone, correct?
              Mark Hanna: No. Number one rule of Wall Street. Nobody, I don't care if you're Warren Buffet or if you're Jimmy Buffet, nobody knows if a stock is gonna go up, down, sideways or in ****ing circles, least of all stock brokers, right?
              Jordan Belfort: Mm-hmm.
              Mark Hanna: It's all a fugazi. Do you know what fugazi is?
              Jordan Belfort: Fugazi, it's a fake...
              Mark Hanna: Yeah, fugazi, fogazi. It's a wazi, it's a woozi. It's...fairy dust. It doesn't exist, it's never landed, it is no matter, it's not on the elemental charge. It's not ****ing real.
              Mark Hanna: We don't create ****, we don't build anything.
              Jordan Belfort: No.
              Mark Hanna: So if you got a client who brought stock at eight, and it now sits at sixteen, and he's all ****ing happy, he wants to cash it and liquidate and take his ****ing money and run home. You don't let him do that.
              Jordan Belfort: Okay.
              Mark Hanna: Cause that would make it real.
              Jordan Belfort: Right.
              Mark Hanna: No, what do you do? You get another brilliant idea, a special idea. Another situation, another stock to reinvest his earnings and then some. And he will, every single time.
              Jordan Belfort: Mm-hmm.
              Mark Hanna: Cause they're ****ing addicted. And then you just keep doing this, again, and again, and again. Meanwhile, he thinks he's getting **** rich, which he is, on paper. But you and me, the brokers?
              Jordan Belfort: Right.
              Mark Hanna: We're taking home cold hard cash via commission, mother****er.
              Jordan Belfort: Right! That's incredible, sir. I'm...I can't tell you how excited I am.
              Mark Hanna: You should be.
              Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

              That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
                A lesson that is still pertinent today is the psychology of markets. Often in a market there is no 'true' value, the value is ascribed by the market based on what people are willing to pay. ...
                I get into this all of the time. Price isn't the same as value. A price is what we agree on at the time of exchange. Value is what it's worth to me, definitely not a fixed amount, and something anyone who's not me can only guess at.

                Originally posted by Rojik View Post
                I get the feeling these guys ancestors were around the time of the Tulip Bubble
                If you need a broker to tell you what to buy and when to sell, you probably shouldn't be in stocks.
                Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

                Questions about our site? See the FAQ.

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                • #9
                  In terms of alternative means of war, capital markets, stock markets and bond markets are an essential part of the capitalist system. If the flow of money can be interrupted it can hurt a country in much the same way military planners might hurt an enemy through hitting fuel supplies and infrastructure.

                  We are seeing this today in Russia and Iran, which are feeling the pain of being shut out of the big financial markets in the US and Europe. Capital flees the country and no one wants to lend you more. In the Cold War the Soviets stood outside the capitalist system but now they have to play by the rules of Globalisation or pay the price. It is maybe only China that can stand aloof now.

                  Conversely, when our own economies were in trouble in recent years, dominance of capital markets allowed both the US and UK to print vast amounts of new money to stave off deflation and depression and the world cheerfully bought our bonds because we could be trusted to honour them.
                  Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post
                    I love that story!

                    ....

                    I new some one who had LLamas that were valued at up to $10,000. Their was a "LLama Market Crash". Suddenly These LLamas were worth next to nothing!
                    As in every crash one can benefit if you are properly positioned. There were a few legit wool or fibre farmers who found the Llama price crash great opportunity to increase their herds at a extremely low cost. If you go to the fibre fairs regularly you can spot those wool producers by their large and varied product displays. I cant help but guess the folks who bought Llamas at $10,000 or $5,000 were also taking out risky loans to buy overpriced & oversized McMansions marketed by the likes of CP Morgan or Beezer Homes.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Escape2Victory View Post
                      .... In the Cold War the Soviets stood outside the capitalist system but now they have to play by the rules of Globalisation or pay the price. It is maybe only China that can stand aloof now.

                      ....
                      Perhaps China can stand aloof. It will be interesting to see them moving on without the usual market penalties we know and hate. Then again perhaps the Gods with reveal some new and even more terrible deamon to chew on the entrails of Chinas economy.

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                      • #12
                        I tend you use as a rule of thumb that if the scheme/craze appears too good to be true, that it usually is.

                        As far as China goes they have long valued their 'edible' swallow birds' nests. I wonder if their current financial setbacks will propel financial speculation in that arena.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rojik View Post
                          I get the feeling these guys ancestors were around the time of the Tulip Bubble
                          New legislation proposed here - to make financial advisers in part financially responsible for the results - you make a profit on their advice they get a bit but you make a loss some of it comes out of their pocket. Bad advisers go out of business PDQ - a real market solution.
                          Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                          Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MarkV View Post
                            New legislation proposed here - to make financial advisers in part financially responsible for the results - you make a profit on their advice they get a bit but you make a loss some of it comes out of their pocket.
                            Just what we need more protection from ones own stupidity. What is next electric shock collars that stop people from over eating?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                              Just what we need more protection from ones own stupidity. What is next electric shock collars that stop people from over eating?
                              The con man's excuse down the ages
                              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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