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Indochina 1945-1954

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  • #76
    Sad birthday...unknown by the french government :

    http://translate.google.fr/translate...ml&sl=fr&tl=en

    My father was there and come back ( not injured in the battle, but very sick by tropical diseases.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Ripley View Post
      Sad birthday...unknown by the french government :

      http://translate.google.fr/translate...ml&sl=fr&tl=en

      My father was there and come back ( not injured in the battle, but very sick by tropical diseases.
      Your father was at Dien Bien Phu?

      Comment


      • #78
        C'etait aussi un evenement tragique pour plusiers Vietnamiens et d'autres Indochinois. Une longue route vers l'exile, l'oublie, et l'extermination.
        dit: Lirelou

        Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá ǵ!

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by lirelou View Post
          C'etait aussi un evenement tragique pour plusiers Vietnamiens et d'autres Indochinois. Une longue route vers l'exile, l'oublie, et l'extermination.
          HEY, MICK - HERE'S ANOTHER ONE! DONTCHA JUST LOVE IT?!

          "It was also a tragic event for a lot of Vietnamese as well as others in Indochina. [The beginning of] a long road into exile, [abandonment], and elimination."

          -- RR
          www.RadioVietnam.net

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          • #80
            Originally posted by RadioResearcher View Post
            HEY, MICK - HERE'S ANOTHER ONE! DONTCHA JUST LOVE IT?!

            "It was also a tragic event for a lot of Vietnamese as well as others in Indochina. [The beginning of] a long road into exile, [abandonment], and elimination."

            -- RR
            RR, I know.

            I put it through an online translator and got this.

            It etait also a tragic evenement for plusiers Vietnameses and others Indochinese. A long road towards exiles it, forgets it, and destroying.

            I'm still none the wiser

            Juste la sorte de chose à laquelle vous vous attendriez de Lirelou, il est un smartarse de la voie en arrière

            Comment


            • #81
              For many more Vietnamese, in the may 7th "C'est la fin du Commencement". Viet Nam made her first step in the Modern Area, under communist's rules it is true, but still it remains the Viet Nam that many generations of Vietnamese patriots under the French reign dreamed about for so longtime.
              Đánh cho để dài tóc, Đánh cho để đen răng, Đánh cho nó chích luân bất phản, Đánh cho nó phiến giáp bất hoàn, Đánh cho sử tri Nam quốc anh hùng chi hữu chủ

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by banzua View Post
                For many more Vietnamese, in the may 7th "C'est la fin du Commencement". Viet Nam made her first step in the Modern Area, under communist's rules it is true, but still it remains the Viet Nam that many generations of Vietnamese patriots under the French reign dreamed about for so longtime.
                Banzua

                I know you have a point. I'm not sure what it is.

                Perhaps if you included a year for the May 7th reference it would put it in context?

                While I've got you and we're translating, what does:

                'Du Me Uc Dai Loi', really mean?

                Serious question.

                Cheers

                Mick

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Chippymick View Post
                  Banzua

                  I know you have a point. I'm not sure what it is.

                  Perhaps if you included a year for the May 7th reference it would put it in context?

                  While I've got you and we're translating, what does:

                  'Du Me Uc Dai Loi', really mean?

                  Serious question.

                  Cheers

                  Mick
                  May 7th 1954, troopers from Viet Minh Division 312 captured De Castries and all his staff, officially end the battle of Dien Bien Phu and the French hope of domination in Indochina.

                  For the translation, i will send it to you by PM
                  Đánh cho để dài tóc, Đánh cho để đen răng, Đánh cho nó chích luân bất phản, Đánh cho nó phiến giáp bất hoàn, Đánh cho sử tri Nam quốc anh hùng chi hữu chủ

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by banzua View Post
                    May 7th 1954, troopers from Viet Minh Division 312 captured De Castries and all his staff, officially end the battle of Dien Bien Phu and the French hope of domination in Indochina.

                    For the translation, i will send it to you by PM
                    Many thanks Banzua on both counts.

                    Unfortunately part of your PM'd translation was censored with four asterisks.

                    From my understanding it means:

                    Australian's engage in unnatural and overly familiar relationships with their mothers.

                    Am I correct?

                    Thanks again

                    Mick.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by lirelou View Post
                      Craine. Reference "democratic" elections in Vietnam in 1955 or 1965. You could not have held democratic elections in Vietnam in either of those years. Those under Communist control would have voted for Uncle Ho. Most of those in areas under ARVN control would have voted for Diem or whomever. The reason I say "most" is that the consequences for voting against the preferred candidate in government controlled areas was not as extreme as doing so in VC controlled areas. By the way, in 1945, when Uncle Ho declared the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, the vast majority of Vietnamese had never heard of Ho Chi Minh, and the most popular official photo in Vietnamese households was that of Philippe Petain. If you find that to be absurd, you do not understand the Confucian conservative grip unique to the Vietnam in 1945.
                      I would like to second Lirelou. The belief that Ho Chi Minh would win an election in 1955 is a bad assumption. Politics in Vietnam (then) is the same as politic anywhere else. All politic is local.

                      Assume that democratic election could be held, I think Ho would have won with a plurality, but not a majority. I am pretty sure he would not have won in the Cochin China. Hoa Hao and Cao Dai alone number more than 3 millions and they are not going to vote for Ho. Trotskyist (4th International) was the stronger Communist Party in the South and was much more popular.

                      In Annam, some would vote for the Monarchist, Viet-Nam-Quoc-Dan-Dang (VNQDD), or Dai-Viet. Even in the North, Ho would not have got the Catholic block and VNQDD and Dai-Viet were strong in Northern cities.

                      It is all depended on whether the other nationalist parties can form an unified block. If they cannot, Ho would won with a plurality.
                      "May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your crotch and may your arms be to short to scratch" (Arab Proverb)

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                      • #86
                        Regarding the elections to be held in 1955-56. I remember seeing a Vietnamese joke somewhere that said: If the elections were held today (1956), everyone in the South would vote for Ho Chi Minh, and everyone in the North would vote for Ngo Dien Diem.
                        dit: Lirelou

                        Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá ǵ!

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          French Indochina War historical site

                          Légion étrangère en Indochine 1946-54
                          guerre d'Indochine française reconstitution historique du groupe
                          http://www.legionetrangere.us

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            7th BCP

                            I have been researching the decisive ambush of GM-100 on 24 June 1954 recently, and I have a question.

                            GM-100 planned to move to PK22 after abandoning An-Khe, and link up there with GAP-1, and GM-42.

                            GAP-1 (at PK22) consisted of the following units:
                            3e BPVN
                            7e BCP

                            GM-42 (at Mang Yang Pass) consisted of the following units:
                            1e BMVN
                            3e BMVN
                            7e BMVN
                            4e GAVN
                            4e ERVN [1 platoon was with GM-100]

                            * the 4th Vietnamese Mountain Division was composed of GM-41 and GM-42
                            The following battalions made up the division (so far as I can tell):

                            1e BMVN
                            3e BMVN
                            4e BMVN
                            5e BMVN
                            7e BMVN
                            8e BMVN
                            29e BVN [I have some doubts about this unit being a part of the division. I think it more probably was a part of the 2nd Vietnamese Infantry Division]
                            4e ERVN
                            4e GAVN

                            GM-100, (ambushed at PK15), consisted of:

                            BM/43e RIC
                            I/Coree
                            II/Coree
                            520e TDKQ
                            4e ERVN [1 platoon of 2 x M-8 Greyhounds, and 3 x M3 Halftracks]
                            II/10e RAC

                            Commando Vitasse [a company-sized commando of Bahnar tribesmen provided a degree of off road reconnaissance north of RC 19, but took no active part in the fighting]

                            [III/5e Cuirassiers was stationed in Pleiku at the time of the ambush I believe]


                            My question is this:

                            I have information that the 7e BCP was disbanded in July of 1952, and never reconstituted. At the time of the ambush of GM-100, all parachute battalions had been consumed at Dien Bien Phu, with the exception of the Cambodian Parachute Battalion, the Laotian Parachute Battalion, and the 4e and 7e BPVN.

                            Could the 7e BCP listed in the Order of Battle have been a mistake, and that the 1st Airborne Group actually included the 7e BPVN instead of the 7e BCP? Or possibly the 7e BPVN was formed from the Vietnamese paratroopers which had been a part of the 7e BCP?

                            Any information and/or corrections would be most welcome. Thanks.
                            Last edited by Finn; 16 Nov 09, 10:27.

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                            • #89
                              Lien Khu V

                              So what exactly were the Viet Minh forces avialable in LK-V in June of 1954?

                              [I have the following units present (with varying degrees of confidence in their designations or existence)

                              803rd Regiment [Near An-Khe]
                              19th Battalion
                              39th Battalion
                              59th Battalion

                              108th Regiment [North around Kontum]
                              89th Battalion
                              90th Battalion

                              96th Regiment [Part near Mang Yang, most near Bato (in Quang Nagi)]
                              40th Battalion
                              79th Battalion

                              120th Regional Regiment [South of An-Khe]
                              unknown subordinate units

                              102nd Regional Regiment [I am wondering if this is a phantom unit, and merely a 'typo' for the 120th]

                              84th Regional Regiment I am very uncertain about the size and existence of this unit. I have a gut-feeling it was a subordinate battalion to one of the other formations listed]

                              29th Regional Battalion [Near Bong Son]
                              108th Regional Battalion [Near Bong Son]
                              30th Regional Battalion [Location unknown]

                              As always any further information or corrections are most welcome. Thanks.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Who was garrisoning Pleiku?

                                I posted (above) that the 4th Vietnamese Mountain Division was comprised of GM-41, and GM-42.

                                GM-42 was at Mang Yang in June, and GM-41 was South at Ban Me Thuot.

                                I know that GM-100 was at An-Khe, and that GAP-1 was at PK-22.

                                The III/5e Curiassiers were at Pleiku, but what other units were there with them?

                                I am wondering if there was also a GM-43 which was a part of the 4th Mountain Division as well, and if that comprised the garrrison of Pleiku at this time.

                                Looking at the missing battalions in the sequence, it seems that *if* there was another regimental sized unit in the division, it would be comprised of the following battalions:

                                2e BMVN
                                6e BMVN
                                9e BMVN

                                The 4e GAVN probably had one battery with each element. [I believe the 4e GAVN had one battery of 120mm mortars, 1 battery of 75mm pak howitzers, and a third battery of 105's]

                                Likewise, the 4e ERVN probably had one platoon with GM-42, one platoon with GM-100, and a third platoon with the (suspected, but not proven) GM-43.

                                Can anyone confirm the exact organization of the 4th Mountain Division?

                                Comment

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