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Indochina 1945-1954

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Miss.Saigon View Post
    Thank you for the bibliography. I am all about the books. I have some of these but there were a couple of titles I was unfamiliar with. Curiously the book you use as an avatar is not on your list
    I bought the book and for the money spent, I wasn't too impressed. But the cover is sooo pretty!

    Hopefully soon, I will be able to start studying more on the war. Been away for quite some time.
    "If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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    • #32
      .

      NEVER FORGET


      CLARITY =

      Who Owns the Vietnam War?

      http://www.ArmchairGeneral.com/forum...ad.php?t=58906



      NEVER FORGET

      .
      Signed: "ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer / Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965, LZ Falcon

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      • #33
        Not sure about Cambodia but in Viet Nam, "Uncle" Ho would of won any democratic election held in 1955. Or 1965.
        "If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

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        • #34
          Originally posted by craine View Post
          Not sure about Cambodia but in Viet Nam, "Uncle" Ho would of won any democratic election held in 1955. Or 1965.
          .

          NEVER FORGET

          .

          New now available historical records from the other side show that Chinese Communists met in Hong Kong around the time of the 1st World War to agree on strategy to communize all of S.E. Asia, starting with Vietnam. They would give public cover for these movements, by declaring them as Nationalistic or Civil War movements ...when the actual goal was to Communize the many through force and deception.

          During the 1920's a Paris (France) University student named HO CHI MINH was Communized, returning home hell bent on communizing his homeland Vietnam first ..then all of S.E. Asia. Under the public cover of Nationalism or Civil War.

          Horridly bringing down on the many in the end, thanks to pro-active support in America for what HO CHI MINH was doing to Vietnam and the rest of S.E. Asia during the Vietnam War:

          .."The JOURNEY from the FALL"..

          http://www.JourneyFromTheFall.com

          http://www.Freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1806248/posts

          http://www.Freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1308949/posts

          .

          NEVER ever AGAIN.

          .

          NEVER FORGET

          .
          Signed: "ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer / Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965, LZ Falcon

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          • #35
            Craine, you need to review my articles (with co-author Dr. Mireille Nicoud) on the French Foreign Legion in Indochina. (Infantry units and non-Infantry Units, published in two parts) Also, I did not see France's most decorated unit noted, the RICM, which despite its infantry designation, fought the war as an armored cavalry unit, in contrast to the 1st REC, which should be counted a riverine or amphibious unit of at least regimental (plus) size, since it had units in South, Central, and North Vietnam. Note that a squadron in the French Army is a "troop" equivalent unit, and not comparable to a squadron in the U.S. Armored Cavalry (a battalion).
            dit: Lirelou

            Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá ǵ!

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            • #36
              My apologies. You should find the articles on line at www.thehistorynet.com under Vietnam Magazine.
              dit: Lirelou

              Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá ǵ!

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              • #37
                Craine. Reference "democratic" elections in Vietnam in 1955 or 1965. You could not have held democratic elections in Vietnam in either of those years. Those under Communist control would have voted for Uncle Ho. Most of those in areas under ARVN control would have voted for Diem or whomever. The reason I say "most" is that the consequences for voting against the preferred candidate in government controlled areas was not as extreme as doing so in VC controlled areas. By the way, in 1945, when Uncle Ho declared the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, the vast majority of Vietnamese had never heard of Ho Chi Minh, and the most popular official photo in Vietnamese households was that of Philippe Petain. If you find that to be absurd, you do not understand the Confucian conservative grip unique to the Vietnam in 1945.
                dit: Lirelou

                Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá ǵ!

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                • #38
                  Welcome aboard lou

                  I'm afraid Craine hasn't been around in over a year but here's a direct link to your article: Foreign Legion Specialized Units in Indochina

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                  • #39
                    Craine, Reference the "baowans' (ARVN airborne). the Vietnamese designation was TD1ND, TD2ND, etc. The number goes between "battalion" and "parachutist". Regarding the mix of French versus Vietnamese, you can find more accurate information in the ARVN history of the war ("trong giai doan hinh thanh 1946-1955") which is volume 4 of their military history, published in Taiwan in 1972. If you live near a major Vietnamese community in the U.S., you should be able to pick up a copy at a bookstore. The initial mix may have been as high as 50/50, but as the ARVN units picked up experience, the mix changed in favor of more Vietnamese.
                    By the way, the tour for the French was 24 months, not counting travel to and from theatre, usually by sea, not 36. Reference the use of the term "colonial". The French Army of the period was divided between the Colonial Army, the Metropolitan Army, and the Arny of North Africa. All provided troops to Vietnam (for example, the 1st Parachute Chasseurs). Except in the case of Metropolitan units (i.e., Regular Army cadred Draftee units), where no draftees were allowed to serve after the failure of the 1947 Autumn Offensive. Metropolitan units sent in cadres and a small number of enlisted volunteers, who then picked up their requisite number of Vietnamese to fill out the unit in Indochina. Example was the 1st Chasseurs Regiment, the unit of Bernard de Lattre de Tassigny a the time of his death. How they filled out the units varied from unit to unit. In some, they filled in all four combat companies of a battalion. In others, they formed two of four line companies. The word "Tabor" is equivalent to "battalion". Their companies were called "goums". These were Berber tribesmen irregulars from Morocco's Atlas mountains. The Moroccan Tirailleurs were Arabs enlisted into the French Army on a TOE attributed to the "Army of Africa", and these latter were organized into companies, battalions, and regiments.

                    The problem with any French Order of Battle listing for the Indochina War is that one must understand the organization and doctrine of French Army of the period.

                    For books: Martin Windrow's "The Last Valley" is superior to anything by Fall on DBP, and I would recommend "Paras d'Indochine" by Jean-Pierre Pissardy (two volumes) for the history of the French Paratroops in Indochina, and that same author's "Commandos Nord Vietnam 1951-1954" for the commando units in the North. You can find them on Amazon, along with Cyril Bondroit's "3me BCCP Indochine 1948-1950" if you want a first hand look at all the changes that took place among the para units of the period.
                    dit: Lirelou

                    Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá ǵ!

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                    • #40
                      Just to say I`m IN
                      Thanks
                      A prayer's as good as bayonet on a day like this!

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                      • #41
                        Welcome to the forums Monocone. We look forward to your thoughts on issues.
                        "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
                        - Col. David Hackworth

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                        • #42
                          Welcome to the Forum

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by monocone View Post
                            Just to say I`m IN
                            Thanks
                            A South African fan of the 317th Platoon, that's unusual! welcome to Landing Zone ACG

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                            • #44
                              Hi, lirelou,

                              I have a question. Perhaps you may know the answer, since you have such a profound knowledge on the French side in the First Indochina War.

                              Vũ Thư Hiên, son of the personal secretary of Hồ Chí Minh, mentioned in his book "Darkness at Noon" (Đêm Giữa Ban Ngày) about a Viet Minh regimental commander who took part in the RC4 campaign. After the battle, when the Viet Minh turned over POWs to the French, a French officer invited him to visit Ha Noi, then under French control, with absolutely no consequence. The commander accepted the invitation, flew to Ha Noi, made a promenade around the Hoan Kiem lake in a plain Viet Minh uniform, to the amazement of the crowd there. That decision, however, later cost him his life. He was sentenced to death by the Viet Minh, supposedly for insubordination and faced a firing squad. He was said to be one of the two first Viet Minh high ranking officers to be court-martialed and granted capital punishment since 1945. The other, Col. Trần Dụ Châu, Chief of Viet Minh logistics, was executed for corruption.

                              Since Vũ Thư Hiên did not provide much detail on the incident, I wonder if French sources have anything on the subject? Perhaps the name of the officer, or some more details. VTH probably got his rank wrong, because all VM regimental commanders taking part in RC4 survived the war. The French officer which invited him to Hà Nội, according to VTH, probably was Lt. Col. Dr Huart.

                              Have you ever come across this in French sources?

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                              • #45
                                I selected South Africa just because I saw a wonderful film (Zulu) after it was the best war film according to serving troops of the U.K.(summer 2008)
                                In fact I am from South America, but my flag does not exist in the logging.
                                About the death of Bernard de Lattre, I read lightly about the place was afternamed the Bernard´s Rock, that is right?

                                Many thanks for your words.
                                A prayer's as good as bayonet on a day like this!

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