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  • Delta's 1981-82 POW Rescue Plans

    Have any of you read the 2002 book, "Inside Delta Force" by Command Sergeant Major Eric Haney, USA, (ret.)? Haney was one of the original selectees for the unit and participated in the April 1980 Iranian hostage rescue attempt. On pages 314 -321 of his book he asserts that the 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta had intel in 1981 that there were at least 125 live American POW's being held in Laos by the North Vietnamese. There was a full scale dress rehearsal for the rescue attempt in the summer of 1981. Haney states that his knowledge was limited by the specially compartmented aspect of much of the intel and mission planning. What he knows he has pieced together talking to others in the know, including a North Vietnamese diplomat who allegedly years later blurted out to him, "Why did the Americans never attempt to recover their remaining POW's after the conclusion of the war?"

    Delta was waiting for the "Go" order when former green beret major James "Bo" Gritz called a press conference claiming he knew where the POW's were, had trained a team in Florida and was going to SE Asia. To avoid mission compromise, Delta laid low for over a year. Picking up the plan again in 1982 to move forward, Gritz made another press conference appearance, this time in Bangkok, claiming he had done recons, knew the POW's location and was launching his rescue attempt. Incredibly stupid and irresponsible for the former officer to do that. He understood operations security principles better than that. Delta scrubbed the mission after their intel dried up, based on pressure applied to senior officers. I have never given credence to conspiracy theories but who could throw the wrench in the works? Was Gritz just out for ego-stroking self-promotion or was he manipulated somehow by others?

    Haney theorizes the CIA put a stop to it because some were concerned that men left behind would be a scandal destroying careers and reputations of the Washington careerists. Per Haney's info, the North would have used the men as a bargaining chip to extract $11 billion in reparations from the U.S. After Watergate, there were no NVN efforts with follow-on administrations. Haney thinks the remaining POW's were executed in the early 1980's and their remains scattered to prevent detection.

    In September 1985, two men who had analyzed the intel, Major Mark Smith and Master Sergeant Melvin McIntyre sued the U.S. government, attempting to force the government to admit that it knew the men were alive and knew their location. Of course, the lawsuit failed and the military careers of the two men were ruined.
    At least they tried ... If what Haney states is true, it is sad that someone intentionally scuttled a viable rescue attempt not once but twice. It is unthinkable that any American would not do the honorable thing and make all possible efforts to repatriate any living Americans left behind.

    (Thank goodness there are honorable Americans still working on recovering Americans in SE Asia: God bless those involved on the teams that search crash sites for remains. Just don't get me started regarding the 100 sets of remains that wait at Central Identification Lab-Hawaii while Governor Dean's brother, a civilian, gets bumped up the list as PRIORITY.)

  • #2
    You might find this site interesting...

    http://www.miafacts.org/

    Comment


    • #3
      Haney's "Inside Delta Force"

      Yeah, I've read the book and, without casting any ill-regard on CSM Haney, those rumors have been around since after the returned POWs touched down on American soil. I do not deny anything CSM Haney says, in fact I acknowledge that real possibility that he speaks the truth. Conversely, as I said, these rumors or suppositions have been around, and the truth must be admitted that more than thirty years after the return, the retrieval of any more live POWs is infinitesimal. We do not forget them, or dismiss the loss of their families. But we do acknowledge that the return of their remains is a pipe dream. I wish they were still alive. Since 1982, I have worn the bracelet of CMS James A. Preston (5-15-66, Laos).

      I applaud CSM Haney for both his service and his book.
      Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
      (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

      Comment


      • #4
        My braclet is for Major Rodney L Strobridge 5-11-72. He will never be forgotten.
        Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

        Comment


        • #5
          I've never met Haney, but by reputation he is not one of the 'flakes' that occassionally move through SOF units.

          Now Beau Gritz... I've served with a number of folks who served with him. He was considered to be a little 'out there'. Mark Smith is also considered to be a little on the edge himself.

          This was kind of a hobby of mine for a number of years. At one time I think you could of classified me as 'true believer'. Since then I have become a tad bit more skeptical. My skepticism started when I attended some luncheons with Nick Rowe as guest speaker and working with a number of individuals who were in SOG and other units 'on the dark side'.

          When you do a comparison of AAR reports detailing the names of shoot downs/confirmed PW (a picture published) vs returnees you
          do come up with some discrepancies. They are nowhere the hundreds though that many purport to be remaining. Also consider the numbers of individuals shoot down/MIA in the North vs the South. If you went down or were captured in the North, could find a NVA/Militia/Police to surrender to, the odds of surviving jumped preceptably.

          Comparatively few PWs survived captivity in the South or survived the trek to the North. Much harsher conditions and more aggressive 'friendly' attacks would endanger them.

          So that brings us down to those that were seen alive on the ground and moving. If they got clear of the crash area they still had some damn rough country and a tenancious enemy. Some probably just decided not to be captured. I remember one pilots debrief I read in the mid70's. 'SM's last transmission was 'Guys I don't think its going to be too profitable to come after me.' He was then seen to throw his survival radio at a Khmer Rouge soldier attacking with rifle and fixed bayonet. Visual was lost and no further contact made.'

          Then there is Army Aviation and ground troops that 'disappeared'. I know of at least one SF MSG that was last seen going into a ammo holding area seconds before it took a took a mortar round. He's been listed as a MIA.

          Then there is a seldom discussed category. At the very end there were still a number of deserters and those who crossed over left in the country. Unlike Garwood, who was drawn over, there were a numer of individuals who deserted in country and ran a lucrative black market for drugs and military equipment.

          Bear in mind also it was pretty common knowledge in the Thai refugee camps that PW knowledge was the fast way to gain a VISA to the US.

          This is a really intense topic that still is developing.

          Comment


          • #6
            Read the new book

            Abandoned in Place - The Men We Left Behind and
            The Untold Story of Operation Pocket Change
            The Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) Planned Rescue of
            American POWs Held in Laos Six Year After the End of the Vietnam War

            For what one intel officer involved in the operation call "the most comprehensive" account of events.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by abandonedinplac View Post
              Read the new book

              Abandoned in Place - The Men We Left Behind and
              The Untold Story of Operation Pocket Change
              The Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) Planned Rescue of
              American POWs Held in Laos Six Year After the End of the Vietnam War

              For what one intel officer involved in the operation call "the most comprehensive" account of events.
              Lodestar?

              Is that you?
              Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

              Comment


              • #8
                Count me a skeptic like RetPara. I had the greatest respect for Eric Haney as CSM of the 5th Bn, 87th Infantry. I salute his post military career success. But I do know that there are differences of opinion on both the issue and personalities involved.

                I find the idea that American POWs are still being held in SEA as ludicrous in the very least. In the early 1980s? Possible in remote regions of Laos, but not probable. Vietnam? No way, except for possible turncoats who wanted to stay. After 1986? Get a life!
                dit: Lirelou

                Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá ǵ!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Haney's book

                  Originally posted by Combat_Engineer View Post
                  Have any of you read the 2002 book, "Inside Delta Force" by Command Sergeant Major Eric Haney, USA, (ret.)? Haney was one of the original selectees for the unit and participated in the April 1980 Iranian hostage rescue attempt. On pages 314 -321 of his book he asserts that the 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta had intel in 1981 that there were at least 125 live American POW's being held in Laos by the North Vietnamese. There was a full scale dress rehearsal for the rescue attempt in the summer of 1981. Haney states that his knowledge was limited by the specially compartmented aspect of much of the intel and mission planning. What he knows he has pieced together talking to others in the know, including a North Vietnamese diplomat who allegedly years later blurted out to him, "Why did the Americans never attempt to recover their remaining POW's after the conclusion of the war?"
                  I've read Haney's book within the last year/two. I bought two versions; first the cheap paperback which didn't have any mention of the Delta Op. Pocket Change, then the (more expensive) original edition that did have it.

                  Haney mentioned a N. Vietnamese diplomat although he didn't say exactly when. Problem is, N. Vietnam ended in 1975 when the North invaded/conquered Rep. S. Vietnam and renamed all of Vietnamese territory "SRV, Soc. Rep. of Vietnam". So there was no N. Vietnam in 1980 or later. Plus, it is "highly remarkable" that a diplomat, of whatever level, would be conversing with a member of the very nation who communist Vietnam is trying to ransom back POWs to, and on top of that a member of that very nation's military unit that would conduct any rescue missions. And a fairly low ranking member at that. Maybe Haney did, maybe he didn't. I don't know him personally to ascertain this, of course.

                  It is well known that the Orient peoples desire most of all to save face. Which is why communist Vietnam publicly disavowed holding US POWs for ransom; although they could have been doing it in private. This POW-for-ransom issue had to have been the foremost goal of communist Vietnam; in 1973 the seveal billions of dollars Nixon promised in a secret letter to them, were to be used to basically technologize and industrialize their entire nation. It was absolutely necessary, for the communist Vietnamese to do this under the table, both in 1973 and around 1980/81.

                  Delta was waiting for the "Go" order when former green beret major James "Bo" Gritz called a press conference claiming he knew where the POW's were, had trained a team in Florida and was going to SE Asia. To avoid mission compromise, Delta laid low for over a year. Picking up the plan again in 1982 to move forward, Gritz made another press conference appearance, this time in Bangkok, claiming he had done recons, knew the POW's location and was launching his rescue attempt. Incredibly stupid and irresponsible for the former officer to do that. He understood operations security principles better than that. Delta scrubbed the mission after their intel dried up, based on pressure applied to senior officers. I have never given credence to conspiracy theories but who could throw the wrench in the works? Was Gritz just out for ego-stroking self-promotion or was he manipulated somehow by others?
                  I think Haney is correct about Gritz being manipulated by others, possibly CIA (direct or indirect). Although, honestly, those things were being said publicly about Gritz throughout the 1980s so maybe Haney knew it from personal experience, maybe he didn't. I read in "Heroes who fell from Grace" that Gritz had invited members of the news media to watch/report on his training in Florida. Of all people, it would be Gritz who should know better than to give news media access to such a thing as training for a POW rescue operation. He served in Vietnam and knows how politically biased to the LEFT they are; which means they have none too good attitude toward the military and no sympathy to MIAs.

                  In September 1985, two men who had analyzed the intel, Major Mark Smith and Master Sergeant Melvin McIntyre sued the U.S. government, attempting to force the government to admit that it knew the men were alive and knew their location. Of course, the lawsuit failed and the military careers of the two men were ruined.
                  Smith and McIntyre were assigned to SFD-K (Special Forces Detachment - Korea) and went TDY to Thailand to canvass refugee camps for info about American MIAs. They claimed they developed leads, one of which would bring, for some cash, two/three MIAs to the Mekong river and be handed over to whoever showed up with the cash. The two and their commander reported the scheduled rendevous up the chain of command but were immediately reassigned to US/Europe. Then they filed case in federal court that the US executvie branch was not enforcing a law (from early 1940s I think) requiring the US to secure the release of any American held hostage/ransom/etc. The federal judge dismissed it because he claimed the federal Judiciary cannot order the other two branches of gov't to do anything. Bull!! The federal judiciary has been ordering things to be done and expecting/demanding the executive enforce it, for as early as the 1950s.

                  Major Mark Smith has written that the US military gave amnesty in 1973 to commissioned/warrant officers for clear/undeniable collaboration with the communist Vietnamese but then six years later convicted Pfc Garwood with testimony from ex-POWs who had demonstrated personal enmity with Garwood and which the US gov't had written/audio evidence of collaboration committed by them. Plus, there is nothing whatsoever to prove Garwood committed collaboration, just the testimony of these (obviously beholden to US gov't) ex-POWs. Shameless double standard.

                  Monica Jensen-Stevenson was a producer of 60 Minutes and was to make an exposee of all this in 1985 with Smith/McIntyre the focus of it. She recounts her efforts and subsequent MIA odyssey in her book "Kiss the Boys Goodbye". She also in this book elaborated on the following topic of CIA drug smuggling in SEA. Also, she talked at length about Robert Garwood.



                  Haney theorizes the CIA put a stop to it because some were concerned that men left behind would be a scandal destroying careers and reputations of the Washington careerists. Per Haney's info, the North would have used the men as a bargaining chip to extract $11 billion in reparations from the U.S. After Watergate, there were no NVN efforts with follow-on administrations. Haney thinks the remaining POW's were executed in the early 1980's and their remains scattered to prevent detection.
                  As far as the CIA, they were rumored to have aided & abetted the flow of Golden Triangle heroin into the USA in return for (as many as possible) Laotians fighting against the Pathet Lao. Then, they started acting like middle-men so as to get a cut of the proceeds to fund their secret ops. that Congress didn't want to fund or that someone in/with Congress would expose to public scrutiny. The POW/MIAs, especially out of Laos, if rescued would eventually bring unwanted attention to the CIA's actions there, which were supposed to not have happpened. Many of these CIA were still there as of 1980/81. This is elaborated on by M. Jensen-Stev. in her book "Kiss the Boys Goodbye".

                  William Hendon in his book "Enormous Crime" claimed that in the first week/two of Reagan's administration, he was briefed by CIA director Casey about an offer from the communist Vietnamese, thru China/Canada or both, to give back an unspecified number of POWs for around $4B. Hendon wrote that a secret service agent on White House duty at the time of the offer came to him and related it. Stunned to say the least, Hendon asked Reagan personally if it were true and Reagan said he couldn't remember. It is hard to believe that a President, who championed POW/MIA cause all thru the 1970s and campaigned in 1980 saying it was of the highest national interest and top priority of his foreign policy, could forget such a thing.



                  At least they tried ... If what Haney states is true, it is sad that someone intentionally scuttled a viable rescue attempt not once but twice. It is unthinkable that any American would not do the honorable thing and make all possible efforts to repatriate any living Americans left behind.
                  As bad as Vietnam was, Korea was worse and WW2 even worse than Korea. According to John G. Brown's Moscow Bound Eisenhower was said to have known that thousands of American Korean War POWs were sent by railway cattle cars across Mongolia into Siberia to be slave labor in Soviet GuLags. The Soviets overran German POW camps for western Allies in eastern Germany and Poland from Dec 1944 to May 45. It is said that several ten thousand Americans (and the same number of British/Dutch/French) in German captivity were not repatriated by the Soviets but held in Siberia to gain political concessions from USA, who refused to demand their release while the US freely gave back Russian POWs the Germans held in France.

                  A few German and Japanese WW2 POWs of the Soviets, who were enslaved in these camps, and managed somehow or other to get repatriated, claimed to have met English speakers with American accents claiming to be Korean War POWs and even some WW2 American POWs. But America has done nothing to gain their release yet gives the Soviets and Chicoms access to our economic markets for their cheap made products.

                  There were said to have been some American and British POWs captured by bolshevik communists in Russia just after the Red Revolution when the USA/Britain tried to aid the White Russians in their fight against Lenin and the Red Russians. Throughout the 1920s some Russians not only escaped the Gulag system but the USSR itself and reported to US state dept. persons they had encountered English speakers, some with American accents, in Soviet gulags sometime between 1918 and 1932. State Dept. buried this info by classifying it. Never to be seen again, till later. Yet the USA helped USSR with food aid to avoid their repeated starvations without even using that as leverage to get back US military captured in USSR.

                  An engineer from Romania once testified in 1990s that in late 70s, while he was still in communist Romania, he and some others went to N. Korea on some kind of social/economic friendship exchange. While riding a bus thru the N. Korean countryside they came upon a rural village with what appeared to be peasants working outside. Some of those stood upright and were seen to be very, very tall and it appeared one/two had red hair, although thick winter clothing made that uncertain. When the N. Korean chaperone was asked who they were, the chaperone said they were American POWs from the Korean War. Almighty God.

                  In the Korean War the two sides pretty much fought to a stalemate by mid-1951 but then spent the rest of the two years of that war haggling over whether to repatriate all communist prisoners held by US/ROK or let some stay; some Chicom prisoners said to US authorities they were Chiang Kai-shek nationalists captured and then sent to Korea, some N. Korean prisoners wanted to remain in the South. Obviously the communists wanted them all back. The US wanted to, and did, allow some to not go back to communist homelands. Guess what the NK's and Chicoms did? Kept several thousand of ours. The higher ups in the US gov't thought it would be cute to show the rest of the peoples in communist lands that they could get US help escaping communism, and get some real time intel about communist life at the same time. Of course, they condemned many of our own citizens (in military) to do this. Didn't seem to bother the consciences of these US higher ups one bit, did it? The moral code of those high up in gov't, military or civilian, is utterly appalling to think about.

                  (Thank goodness there are honorable Americans still working on recovering Americans in SE Asia: God bless those involved on the teams that search crash sites for remains. Just don't get me started regarding the 100 sets of remains that wait at Central Identification Lab-Hawaii while Governor Dean's brother, a civilian, gets bumped up the list as PRIORITY.)
                  Too bad the US gov't, seemingly, tries to thwart any info about MIA coming to light in the public. I cannot imagine too many were left by year 2000, much less 2014. Rotten shame what the US gov't did to all those men.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In short, my theory is that 1-2 years after the fall of Saigon they moved all remaining POW(s) out to numerous places in Laos, Cambodia, China, North Korea, Russia, and maybe even Cuba, and until the "reparations" were paid they were going to stay there until they either died or became of some future perceived use.

                    France paid the "reparations" and got all their people back that survived after they decided to pull out.

                    I also think our guvmint knew this all along and kept it all under the rug, and continued to keep it under the rug well in to the 90(s).

                    The whole situation cannot get any more sad and dishonorable.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I watched this today and found it very interesting. We were more involved in Cambodia and Laos than I remembered.

                      In paying close attention I realized that once any of our GI(s) or spooks were lost in Laos or Cambodia they may very well have been lost forever.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIcXqGwycsc
                      Last edited by GRA; 07 Mar 15, 15:55.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here's some more interesting reading that I have found;

                        http://coyoteprime-runningcauseicant...acrificed.html

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Combat_Engineer View Post
                          Have any of you read the 2002 book, "Inside Delta Force" by Command Sergeant Major Eric Haney, USA, (ret.)? Haney was one of the original selectees for the unit and participated in the April 1980 Iranian hostage rescue attempt. On pages 314 -321 of his book he asserts that the 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta had intel in 1981 that there were at least 125 live American POW's being held in Laos by the North Vietnamese. There was a full scale dress rehearsal for the rescue attempt in the summer of 1981. Haney states that his knowledge was limited by the specially compartmented aspect of much of the intel and mission planning. What he knows he has pieced together talking to others in the know, including a North Vietnamese diplomat who allegedly years later blurted out to him, "Why did the Americans never attempt to recover their remaining POW's after the conclusion of the war?"

                          Delta was waiting for the "Go" order when former green beret major James "Bo" Gritz called a press conference claiming he knew where the POW's were, had trained a team in Florida and was going to SE Asia. To avoid mission compromise, Delta laid low for over a year. Picking up the plan again in 1982 to move forward, Gritz made another press conference appearance, this time in Bangkok, claiming he had done recons, knew the POW's location and was launching his rescue attempt. Incredibly stupid and irresponsible for the former officer to do that. He understood operations security principles better than that. Delta scrubbed the mission after their intel dried up, based on pressure applied to senior officers. I have never given credence to conspiracy theories but who could throw the wrench in the works? Was Gritz just out for ego-stroking self-promotion or was he manipulated somehow by others?

                          Haney theorizes the CIA put a stop to it because some were concerned that men left behind would be a scandal destroying careers and reputations of the Washington careerists. Per Haney's info, the North would have used the men as a bargaining chip to extract $11 billion in reparations from the U.S. After Watergate, there were no NVN efforts with follow-on administrations. Haney thinks the remaining POW's were executed in the early 1980's and their remains scattered to prevent detection.

                          In September 1985, two men who had analyzed the intel, Major Mark Smith and Master Sergeant Melvin McIntyre sued the U.S. government, attempting to force the government to admit that it knew the men were alive and knew their location. Of course, the lawsuit failed and the military careers of the two men were ruined.
                          At least they tried ... If what Haney states is true, it is sad that someone intentionally scuttled a viable rescue attempt not once but twice. It is unthinkable that any American would not do the honorable thing and make all possible efforts to repatriate any living Americans left behind.

                          (Thank goodness there are honorable Americans still working on recovering Americans in SE Asia: God bless those involved on the teams that search crash sites for remains. Just don't get me started regarding the 100 sets of remains that wait at Central Identification Lab-Hawaii while Governor Dean's brother, a civilian, gets bumped up the list as PRIORITY.)
                          I find Gritz's lack of common sense and poor discretion appalling. He should've NEVER said anything to the press until AFTER the mission was over. I cannot imagine why he would do this ... (???)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Oh there was a lot of manipulation and coverups and Delta was not the only one planning another raid.

                            In 81/82 and unnamed unit was being stood up out of N VA came to Bragg recruiting Asiatic speakers and combat vets supposedly to do another POW raid. They took two off the Halo Committee and one Indonesian that spoke 7 languages off my old team, that is the ones I knew of. They moved in N VA about every 6 months and changed names all the time. Unit still exists although morphed many times.

                            In 84 in was Capt in G3 Opns HHB USAIMA which was forerunner of USASOC. I was working TS/SCI (SPECAT) opns and projects. I remember several SPECAT messages on POWs, with camps and names that I had to read the CG onto personally as I was the AO. Yes, they were all over in Laos, Viet Nam I remember for sure. I was shocked but then not surprised as I had heard that from too many guys who were there and POWs. I had assumed that the N VA unit was still working a rescue.

                            I had previously worked for Bob Howard in Phase 1 and 3 and had a very good relationship with him after a really rocky start. Typical of Howard though. In 84 my LTC boss came into my office and asked me I had worked for Howard. When I said yes, I was dragged to the CG's office where he showed me an EYES ONLY sent to him that morning that Howard was officially relieved for being an alcoholic. CG asked me if he drank and if I believed that was true. Yes, he drank but I told him no way he was an alcoholic. CG said then that something was really funny about the whole deal and stank. That was all we heard for about a month or two when I was running the old MATA mile one morning and there was Howard. I fell in with him and he told me part of the other half of the story during the next hour.

                            They had a poloroid photo of two US POWs holding a current paper with date and their official ID cards from inside Laos who would be brought out for $25K in gold. All was sent up thru channels to the DIA and it seems to have disappeared now. Later all three were in Bangkok when it was discovered there was a setup to drop Smith and McIntyre into Laos to disappear along with a Thai SF team from one of 4 MC-130s in SE asia with the crew having sealed orders to open ONLY after takeoff. Live ammo and items were being loaded on the bird on what as supposed to be a non tactical HALO jump. Needless to say, their radar went off and they called Howard. Howard sent Smith and McIntyre back to the Embassy to wait his call and not to leave until they heard from him. Howard left Bangkok on his C12 and on arriving in Korea was met on the runway by Leur and MPs who arrested him for violating the Warpowers act, Neutrality Act and everything else. He gave name, rank and SN for three days until they figured out their little trap never took place and they had to deal with that MOH and had a first class **** storm brewing. God I would have killed to see that interrogation. Howard was officially relieved for being an alcoholic, Leur was also relieved after only being in command 6 months. Less than a year later Leur made his second star after being relieved. Go figure that one! Howard was on the BN command list for either and SF or Ranger BN. He was not taken off but was sent to Germany to take command of a BN there. Want to guess what kind? He commanded a Pershing nuclear missile unit. I would always send my alcoholic Commanders to take charge of a nuke unit wouldn't you. He made O6 right after also as a Reserve Officer as Westmoreland had signed his paperwork to stay past 20 as a Reserve Officer. Howard never admitted to an agreement to hush up and I did not ask but you knew there was more than was published and being said.

                            Anyone who has been around anytime knows the WPPA (West Point Protective Association) will look after their own and Leur certainly was protected it looks like. I know that for a fact too as I was involved in one to protect Lutz after a mishap investigation blew up in his face. He was conned into charging the wrong officer and five others for negligent homicide when actuality it was another duty position entirely and a West Pointer Major who was immediately moved out of the Command and the BN Cdr tried covering it up. A lot of mea culpas and asking for forgiveness went on to keep it quiet as to what actually happened. A completely different story was released to the press also to protect Lutz!

                            Now maybe this is all conjecture the naysayers will say but there are some 100% facts here for sure. I spent over a year with him and SGM Melvin Forbes in that little red tar paper shack at Mackall and he was an interesting man with interesting values. You do not see many soldiers like him and interesting sidebit, he absolutely hated 99% of officers even though he was one. A topic for another day.
                            Last edited by BountyHunter; 05 Jan 16, 19:51.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lirelou View Post
                              Count me a skeptic like RetPara. I had the greatest respect for Eric Haney as CSM of the 5th Bn, 87th Infantry. I salute his post military career success. But I do know that there are differences of opinion on both the issue and personalities involved.

                              I find the idea that American POWs are still being held in SEA as ludicrous in the very least. In the early 1980s? Possible in remote regions of Laos, but not probable. Vietnam? No way, except for possible turncoats who wanted to stay. After 1986? Get a life!
                              No one has greater love than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends John 15:13

                              Comment

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