Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Truth About The Vietnam War?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • jeffdoorgunnr
    replied
    Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

    Charlie/Ho had no trouble changing, Jeff. They had been fighting the same war, but with better leadership in the field.
    Just another, probably valid point of the hundreds of reasons that war was a quaqmire………...

    Leave a comment:


  • Half Pint John
    replied
    Originally posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post

    Very true. unless I am mistaken the ARVN were in a bad situation also trying to convert from local Guerrilla warfare to what they now faced which was large scale conventional warfare. That read I think points out the inadequate equipment they had to counter the north. especially in artillery.
    Charlie/Ho had no trouble changing, Jeff. They had been fighting the same war, but with better leadership in the field.

    Leave a comment:


  • BF69
    replied
    Originally posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post

    absolutely correct. You should read that link. Its spelled out toward the end/ There are several other narritives there if you go to the home page. I can only stand to read a little at a time... its enough to make a person sick...…….politicians in this country should have at the very least been ashamed...…..
    While Congress did cut funding, it didn't end it. The US committed $700 million of military aid for 1974-5, the period covering the last year of the war. The RVN ultimately received more money than that. The previous year (I think)military funding had been 2.8 billion. For perspective, total Russian aid (military and civilian) from 1965-73 was about 3.2 billion. China contributed less. Both scaled back their contributions in 1973 despite the PAVN desperately needing money to rebuild. The 'full support' in the imagination of a poster above was substantially less than the US was sending the the RVN.

    The cut in funding mattered, but a lot less than the 'stab in the back' people want to believe. Nixon himself expected the RVN to collapse and saw the Paris Accords as a way to by a 'decent interval' for the US. The RVN knew those accords were an effective death sentence, which is why they basically had to be threatened with a complete cut in aid by Kissinger, and promised help Nixon was in no position to promise.

    With the PAVN able to base not only in Cambodia & Laos,but also in the parts of the RVN the US ceded to the DRV the ARVN had a near impossible task. By 1974 their logistics were the best they had ever been - I believe a fuel pipeline was run into former RVN territory and massive stockpiling took place. The DRV actually expected the final phase of the war would continue until 1976, so they were prepared for a much longer fight than I think the ARVN was capable of even with more funding.

    Once the US was gone the RVN was on borrowed time. They knew it, Nixon knew it & so did the DRV. Nixon tried to push the 'Victory in Vietnam' fantasy, and right wing revisionists have tried to claim that the North was 'bombed to the negotiating table' (where they were given 10% of the RVN & the ability to base an army there in exchange for giving up an unenforceable claim the the RVN be dissolved - not exactly bombed into submission). Pretty much every scenario in which the RVN in 'saved' involved completely ignoring everything that happened over the previous decade & its consequences.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffdoorgunnr
    replied
    Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

    ARVN was also crippled by Congress violating the terms of our agreement and cutting military aid, while the north continued to receive full support from Eastern Bloc nations.
    absolutely correct. You should read that link. Its spelled out toward the end/ There are several other narritives there if you go to the home page. I can only stand to read a little at a time... its enough to make a person sick...…….politicians in this country should have at the very least been ashamed...…..

    Leave a comment:


  • Arnold J Rimmer
    replied
    Originally posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post

    Very true. unless I am mistaken the ARVN were in a bad situation also trying to convert from local Guerrilla warfare to what they now faced which was large scale conventional warfare. That read I think points out the inadequate equipment they had to counter the north. especially in artillery.
    ARVN was also crippled by Congress violating the terms of our agreement and cutting military aid, while the north continued to receive full support from Eastern Bloc nations.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffdoorgunnr
    replied
    Originally posted by BF69 View Post

    Based on a quick skim it looks interesting. Looking forward to a full read. Just one point about any assessment of the ARVN in 1973-4 - they were facing an adversary who had been gutted in 1972 and was rebuilding. The PAVN wasn't in great shape until the latter part of 1974, and even then it was working to a timetable.
    Very true. unless I am mistaken the ARVN were in a bad situation also trying to convert from local Guerrilla warfare to what they now faced which was large scale conventional warfare. That read I think points out the inadequate equipment they had to counter the north. especially in artillery.

    Leave a comment:


  • BF69
    replied
    Originally posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
    just another side of the "truth" about Vietnam...………..especially pay attention to the period after The united states left...…………

    http://vnafmamn.com/ARVN_68-75.html
    Based on a quick skim it looks interesting. Looking forward to a full read. Just one point about any assessment of the ARVN in 1973-4 - they were facing an adversary who had been gutted in 1972 and was rebuilding. The PAVN wasn't in great shape until the latter part of 1974, and even then it was working to a timetable.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffdoorgunnr
    replied
    just another side of the "truth" about Vietnam...………..especially pay attention to the period after The united states left...…………

    http://vnafmamn.com/ARVN_68-75.html

    Leave a comment:


  • BF69
    replied
    Originally posted by Bo Archer View Post
    Hindsight can be a Man's best friend.

    I have lesser interest in hindsight of Thieu & Ky; but more interest of their plight at the moment in history of the time of the event in question. Am sure as they sit in the comfort of their American retirement life that they may play fairly with the factual history making some of it unbelievable to protect themselves.

    Initially I was pleased with your appearance and acceptance of the fact that many Westerners look upon the Vietnamese as inferiors. Then you seem to spoil this by the strange construction that in their brains they somewhat only see "anti-communist Vietnamese as cattle or pets". This is science fictional and ridiculous. I am saying many Westerners have a culture arrogance that lead them to see all Vietnamese as inferiors. They called them "gooks" among many other names as racial slurs.

    Thieu and Ky wanted the Americans to stay in Vietnam as long as possible because without the Americans they would see their regimes defeated by the Revolution. Johnson wanted out and Dick Nixon wanted in. Enough said!
    All I wanted to know is if the program you are so enthusiastic about aired the views of the most important person in this little story. Clearly it did not, which makes it another exercise in white people talking about white people as if Vietnamese didn't exist.

    BTW, you are one of the people who talks about non-Communist Vietnamese as 'cattle' being herded by clever white men. The fact that you have no interest in the views of the Vietnamese who actually ran South Vietnam simply reinforces the perception that you take the views of white people more seriously than those of anti-communist Vietnamese.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bo Archer
    replied
    Hindsight can be a Man's best friend.

    I have lesser interest in hindsight of Thieu & Ky; but more interest of their plight at the moment in history of the time of the event in question. Am sure as they sit in the comfort of their American retirement life that they may play fairly with the factual history making some of it unbelievable to protect themselves.

    Initially I was pleased with your appearance and acceptance of the fact that many Westerners look upon the Vietnamese as inferiors. Then you seem to spoil this by the strange construction that in their brains they somewhat only see "anti-communist Vietnamese as cattle or pets". This is science fictional and ridiculous. I am saying many Westerners have a culture arrogance that lead them to see all Vietnamese as inferiors. They called them "gooks" among many other names as racial slurs.

    Thieu and Ky wanted the Americans to stay in Vietnam as long as possible because without the Americans they would see their regimes defeated by the Revolution. Johnson wanted out and Dick Nixon wanted in. Enough said!

    Leave a comment:


  • BF69
    replied
    Originally posted by Bo Archer View Post
    Having watch it and trying to evaluate it, It appears to me it was basically well done as far as proving Nixon's criminal behavior. The problem was the final few minutes which had a powerful spin that hits you right between the eyes. I had been looking for the kick that the Corporate/CIA controlled US Media imbedded in it somewhere and reason they allowed the documentary to be seen by the World. It is this that we are to believe or leave us confused: after it is all over and LBJ has his documentation file ready, LBJ takes it to the "Wise Men" (aka Deep State elites that control him) to humbly ask them if they want Dick Nixon to be prosecuted; they say NO; their reasoning is "national security" as those wire taps were a secrets. WHAT A JOKE! The proof is that an implication is left that is File is now madly sought after by Dick Nixon as LBJ stored it supposedly for future use if needed. Further implication is that it is this file that was sought by Dick's CIA/Cuban team of thugs at Watergate. An finally the grand prize of propaganda spin is the impression that the sought after Watergate File was about Vietnam scandal and not the JFK assassination/Cuba/Castro File showing a even more dangerous Nixon scandal. This being my speculation based on some research readings.
    For those of us unable to see what sounds like a rehash of things thatare already known, what did the 'documentary' have to say about the reaction of the leaders of the RVN - Thieu & Ky - to Nixon & Johnson. They have both written about Nixon's approach and their response to it? Those accounts aren't hard to find for any serious researcher. Was any time given to that, or this this yet another account of the Vietnam war that treats anti-communist Vietnamese as cattle or pets? Was there any suggestion that Thieu might have made his own calculations on the matter, or was it simply assumed he did what the white man said he should do?

    I am yet to read an account of this incident from any Western writer or historian that took into account the possibility that the Sth Vietnamese leadership were intelligent humans capable of making their own decisions on this important issue. The ingrained prejudices involved there are pretty clear. Perhaps MSNBC will be different. perhaps not.
    Last edited by BF69; 02 Dec 18, 02:25.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bo Archer
    replied
    Having watch it and trying to evaluate it, It appears to me it was basically well done as far as proving Nixon's criminal behavior. The problem was the final few minutes which had a powerful spin that hits you right between the eyes. I had been looking for the kick that the Corporate/CIA controlled US Media imbedded in it somewhere and reason they allowed the documentary to be seen by the World. It is this that we are to believe or leave us confused: after it is all over and LBJ has his documentation file ready, LBJ takes it to the "Wise Men" (aka Deep State elites that control him) to humbly ask them if they want Dick Nixon to be prosecuted; they say NO; their reasoning is "national security" as those wire taps were a secrets. WHAT A JOKE! The proof is that an implication is left that is File is now madly sought after by Dick Nixon as LBJ stored it supposedly for future use if needed. Further implication is that it is this file that was sought by Dick's CIA/Cuban team of thugs at Watergate. An finally the grand prize of propaganda spin is the impression that the sought after Watergate File was about Vietnam scandal and not the JFK assassination/Cuba/Castro File showing a even more dangerous Nixon scandal. This being my speculation based on some research readings.

    Leave a comment:


  • Greybriar
    replied
    Originally posted by GRA View Post
    I cannot and will not waste my time giving any attention whatsoever to anything at all from MSNBC. They have absolutely NO CREDIBILITY with me at all and they have my perpetual vote of NO CONFIDENCE whatsoever.
    NBC's credibility collapse

    Leave a comment:


  • GRA
    replied
    I cannot and will not waste my time giving any attention whatsoever to anything at all from MSNBC. They have absolutely NO CREDIBILITY with me at all and they have my perpetual vote of NO CONFIDENCE whatsoever.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kurt Knispel
    replied
    Originally posted by Bo Archer View Post
    I watched and recorded the MSNBC documentary BETRAYAL and it meet all expectations. The Truth for all Americans to see if only they cared to do so. What a shame over the lack of interest and outrage! See it on the replay Friday night!
    I will definitely do that!

    Leave a comment:

Latest Topics

Collapse

Working...
X