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The Truth About The Vietnam War?

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  • The Truth About The Vietnam War?

    Our world at Khe Sanh was blood, death, and filth with deafening gunfire and blinding explosions as a constant soundtrack...Barry Fixler
    http://sempercool.com/

  • #2
    What Truth, people that weren't born when it was going on are telling us all about that war, I have heard it for 48 years now and I am sick of ALL the opinions on that war, it seems that every year someone comes out with a different slant, and as far as I am concerned it's all BS!
    Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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    • #3
      The truth? Go way back in History Before Yesterday when Truman allowed his buddy, Charles De Gaulle, to keep his Indochina colony over the objections of Ho Chi Minh who wanted independence from France at the end of WW2.
      “Breaking News,”

      “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
        What Truth, people that weren't born when it was going on are telling us all about that war, I have heard it for 48 years now and I am sick of ALL the opinions on that war, it seems that every year someone comes out with a different slant, and as far as I am concerned it's all BS!
        FKm all Trung.
        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

        you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

          FKm all Trung.
          kinda sums it up...………...

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          • #6
            Here's a book recently read that I believe reveals some real "truth about the Vietnam War": EMBERS OR WAR: THE FALL OF AN EMPIRE AND THE MAKING OF AMERICA'S VIETNAM by FREDRICK LOGEVALL.

            Here's some citation found in the book:

            WINNER OF THE PULITZER PRIZE

            Winner of the Francis Parkman Prize from the Society of American Historians---Winner of the American Library in Paris Book Award---Winner of the Council on Foreign Relations Arthur Ross Book Award---Finalist for the Cundill Prize in Historical Literature.

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            • #7
              The problem with trying to get at the "real truth about the Vietnam War" is that so damn much information remains classified you can never get at the base of how the orders were reasoned and formed that were given to the troops to carry out. Vietnam remains extremely classified to this very day in spite of the big "Information Age" we live in now.

              Based on some of the vets I talked to I dont think we EVER really left Vietnam even after 1975. I've heard some very strange and bizarre stuff about certain operations that went on over there (and supposedly afterwards).

              I've tried to not be one of those that gives an opinion of the war. Especially since I did not fight in it. I can only give my opinion of the era that I lived in and saw the war on TV in and what I learned about our guvmint at the time. Best thing I learned was nothing in guvmint is ever quite what it seems.

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              • #8
                Here's more nice citation from the front of the book called ABOUT THIS BOOK:

                "Embers of War is a LANDMARK WORK that will forever change your understanding of how and why America went to war in Vietnam. TAPPING NEWLY ACCESSIBLE DIPLOMATIC ARCHIVES IN SEVERAL NATIONS, Fredrik Logevall traces the path that led two Western nations to tragically lose their way in the jungles of Southeast Asia. He brings to life the bloodiest battles of France's final years in Indochina and shows how, from an early point, a succession of American leaders made DISASTROUS POLICY CHOICES that put America on its own collision course with history. An epic story of wasted opportunities and deadly miscalculations, Ember of War delves deep into the HISTORICAL RECORDS to provide HARD ANSWERS TO THE UNANSWERED QUESTIONS surrounding the demise of one Western power in Vietnam and the arrival of another----illuminates THE HIDDEN HISTORY of the French and American experiences in Vietnam."

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                • #9
                  There are a lot of what ifs related to the Vietnam war but what I find fascinating is the willingness of the Vietnamese people to die and suffer for a cause that from an outside perspective seems poorly articulated. By the time the Chinese invaded in 1979 Vietnam was an organised state with a clear identity but it doesn't seem clear that it was in the 1960s. To be clear I'm talking about a recognizable political identity not a cultural identity.

                  It is always hard to understand a civil war in an unfamiliar culture. A similar question to the above could be asked of why poor southerners provided so much support to the slave owning aristocracy in the U.S. civil war.

                  Through out history peasants have fought wars more enthusiastically than they could logically be expected to have done. Your thoughts on the topic would be appreciated if they can be explained in terms of the Vietnamese culture.
                  We hunt the hunters

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                  • #10
                    In my humble opinion, the Vietnamese peasant families simply were seeking out opportunities to enjoy the fruits of their own labor. For generations they suffered under the control of the elite Vietnamese Landlords with both under an over arching French Colonial System. With the introduction of a localized revolutionary Vietnamese Marxism, these said peasants sought their chance to secure this dream within an appealing discipline heretofore unknown to them. They now had a way to overthrow the oppressive Landlords and French upon which they did do so.

                    On the issue of the Southern poor white non slave owners within which a portion thereof supported the Confederacy, their dream were simply to someday in the future to become wealthy rich slaveholders. The Southern poor free labor farmers did not have use of a Marxist discipline system in purse of their dream.

                    Both fought hard for this dream with the Americans having the weaker of will.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bo Archer View Post
                      In my humble opinion, the Vietnamese peasant families simply were seeking out opportunities to enjoy the fruits of their own labor. For generations they suffered under the control of the elite Vietnamese Landlords with both under an over arching French Colonial System. With the introduction of a localized revolutionary Vietnamese Marxism, these said peasants sought their chance to secure this dream within an appealing discipline heretofore unknown to them. They now had a way to overthrow the oppressive Landlords and French upon which they did do so.

                      On the issue of the Southern poor white non slave owners within which a portion thereof supported the Confederacy, their dream were simply to someday in the future to become wealthy rich slaveholders. The Southern poor free labor farmers did not have use of a Marxist discipline system in purse of their dream.

                      Both fought hard for this dream with the Americans having the weaker of will.
                      That is a very interesting idea that I had never heard before. Certainly a system of self imposed discipline is a necessary component of any peasant revolt. Cleared I have over estimated the importance of communist leadership?
                      We hunt the hunters

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bo Archer View Post
                        In my humble opinion, the Vietnamese peasant families simply were seeking out opportunities to enjoy the fruits of their own labor. For generations they suffered under the control of the elite Vietnamese Landlords with both under an over arching French Colonial System. With the introduction of a localized revolutionary Vietnamese Marxism, these said peasants sought their chance to secure this dream within an appealing discipline heretofore unknown to them. They now had a way to overthrow the oppressive Landlords and French upon which they did do so.

                        On the issue of the Southern poor white non slave owners within which a portion thereof supported the Confederacy, their dream were simply to someday in the future to become wealthy rich slaveholders. The Southern poor free labor farmers did not have use of a Marxist discipline system in purse of their dream.

                        Both fought hard for this dream with the Americans having the weaker of will.
                        No the Vietnamese fought for their freedom. The South fought for the future enslavement of a people. One very commendable the other totally disgusting an amoral.
                        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                        you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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                        • #13
                          We appear to be in full agreement. The Vietnamese peasant sought freedom to farm his own ancestor plot of land and worship freely at the ancestor nearby shrine there without oppression. Your "No" is not understandable to me? Could it be your understanding of "freedom" is not the same as the Vietnamese peasant understand of "freedom" whereupon we stumble into the root of the problem? Maybe/Maybe not!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

                            No the Vietnamese fought for their freedom. The South fought for the future enslavement of a people. One very commendable the other totally disgusting an amoral.
                            I think you missed the point which was simply to explore why the poor do most of the fighting and dying. Bo believes that the Vietnamese peasants were not fighting to exchange colonialism with communism and that Marxism simply provided a function similar to religion that disciplined the will to fight.
                            We hunt the hunters

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                            • #15
                              IF that is so, I can agree. Paraphrasing the old say of you'll never find an atheist in a foxhole, you'll never find a millionaire in on either
                              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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