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  • Lrrp Vs Sog

    Can Anyone Tell Me The Difference Between A Lrrrp And A Sog? From What I've Read It Sounds Like They Had Similar Duties.

  • #2
    LRRP were tasked with long range reconnaissance at division and corps level within the RVN, every US divisions in Vietnam had a company and in 1969 all these companies were redesignated as companies of the 75th Ranger Regiment. MACVSOG was a USSF-run command charged with clandestine operations outside the Republic in Laos and Cambodia.

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    • #3
      SOG had broader responsibilities which Trung Si and D1 touched on in another thread, the LRRP were narrowly focused on Reconnaissance for their divisions. However, the way they did Recon was very similar. Also you can add the Marine Force Recon units in I Corps, who performed the LRRP duties for the Marines there. The Seals did the same kind of thing in the Delta, but like SOG, they also had some other responsibilities. By today's definition these all fall under the category of Special Forces. Green Beret, Ranger, SEAL, Force Recon.

      There are a whole lot of good books on various Lurping units in Vietnam if you are interested. I would say that it is the area of book that started the deluge of Vietnam combat memoirs years back.

      Daring stuff those small units did.

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      • #4
        Now, ya all know we never went into Laos and Cambodia. That was simply a no-no. Our Congress so said.

        On the other hand.....

        GG
        "The will of a section rooted in self interest, should not outweigh the vital interests of a whole people." -Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain-

        "Fanatics of any sort are dangerous." -GG-

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
          Now, ya all know we never went into Laos and Cambodia. That was simply a no-no. Our Congress so said.

          On the other hand.....

          GG
          What you mean that the USA Prez didn't order you into Cambodia one Christmas Day?
          "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Grognard Gunny View Post
            Now, ya all know we never went into Laos and Cambodia.
            Perhaps not, but we should have

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            • #7
              Uh-oh. I think I might have done something wrong back in 67-69.
              What now?
              "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
              - Col. David Hackworth

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              • #8
                Originally posted by DeltaOne View Post
                Uh-oh. I think I might have done something wrong back in 67-69.
                What now?
                Like the old sergeant told me when I was caught doing something wrong with him. "Deny everything son, it doesn't matter what they say, just deny everything." It worked.
                "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.

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                • #9
                  SOG was SF guys reassigned to MACV. They technically were still assigned to 5th group, but under control of MACV.
                  Big difference again was that SF guys were used because of security clearances.
                  You had to have a "secret" clearence to be in SF and a TS for SOG.
                  You had to have a clearence to go across the border.
                  Missions were very similar except fewer US folks were used compared to the conventional guys who normally had no indigenous troops.
                  This gets tossed around quite a bit on an SF board I belong to.
                  Read Plaster's books.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Trung-si View Post
                    Read Plaster's books.
                    Excellent books. To make comparisons I would also recommend some of Linderer's and Chamber's books On LRRP Rangers and "Doc" Bruce Norton's books on Force Recon.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      LRRP units implemented recon in major unit AORs. There were Corps level units, Division and Brigade level units. In 1969, with the re-institution of the Army Rangers- all these units became redesginated as US Army Rangers. For instance: the 71st Infantry Detachment (LRRP) that was attached to the 199th Infantry Brigade became Company M/75th Infantry in 1969.

                      SOG was different as they did a lot of crossing national borders. LRRP teams had six members while an SOG could have over 18. And the SOG units normaly used Vietnamese or Cambodians with a few advisors to blend in, etc.

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                      • #12
                        I thinl also that SOG units tended to use enemy or non american weapons, don't carried dogtag and often were dressed in VC-NVA "uniforms" (I have a picture of a NVA sun helmet made in Taiwan for SOG use). In addition they used cambodian and laotian "mercenaries" and sometime LLDB men in their teams.

                        And, if I my memory isn't too faulty they carried also raidss and other "hard" missions opposed to more recon-intelligence gathering performed by LRRP.

                        About Laos and Cambodia... USMC entered Laos during Dewey Canyon and there was Toan Thang 42 (I apologize in advence if I have spelled it wrong) that was the cambodian incursion.
                        the real credit goes to the little ARVN soldier. He is just tremendous, just magnificent. He stood in there, took all that fire and gave it back. General James F. Hollingsworth USA.

                        Bomben, Bomben, Bomben auf Hamasland!

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                        • #13
                          Yes, that is correct ... I believe they called it "sterilizing". SOG was also not allowed to have fighter support if they got into trouble.

                          ex. as stated above they used AKs, Sterling SMGs, silenced pistols (which were rare at the time), etc.

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                          • #14
                            They didn 't have direct CAS, but I recall they can got some prearranged strikes and if royal lao units operated in the area they can get something. Just not the massive reaction used by unit in RVN. I think that some CAS missions logged as support for Lao or Hmong units were actually used for SOG. Even if due to the nature of SOG missions and units conventional CAS was a bit difficult.
                            the real credit goes to the little ARVN soldier. He is just tremendous, just magnificent. He stood in there, took all that fire and gave it back. General James F. Hollingsworth USA.

                            Bomben, Bomben, Bomben auf Hamasland!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              SOG had rheir own air support-mostly gunships.
                              They used a variety of weapons, not only foreign.
                              Sometimes they wore NVA gear, sometimes not.
                              Depended on nature of operation.
                              Sigma ran observation missions out of my camp for a while.
                              They stored ammo and JP4 on the end of the strip and had several older Huie gunships that stayed there on call. One day they scrambled to hit a truckload of NVA observed by the team.
                              They blew away a truckload of Cambodian workers and caused an international incident.
                              They loaded those old guns so heavy that it took the whole airstrip to get them off the ground-often with the crew chief running alongside pushing.

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