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Replanting Vietnam's War Zones

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  • Replanting Vietnam's War Zones

    Found this video report from a NYT journalist about the damages of agent orange in today's Vietnam. Particularly interesting is the fact that is was shot in the A Shau Valley (called the A Loui now):

    http://video.on.nytimes.com/index.js...f49235d110ecbe

  • #2
    I understand well what the botanist is trying to do. His intent is to be commended but his actions should be evaluated closer.

    If he wants to keep livestock out of a certain area the easist thing to do is what USA ranchers have been doing for over 150 years. Put up a barbed wire fence. What the botanist is trying to do in putting up a living fence is a 'tree huggers' solution that has been used in most parts of the world for thousands of years. They are usually not nearly as successful as many would like you to think they. Actually eating the livestock as long as you stay away from the liver and fat is pretty safe, dioxins do not accumulate in the actual meat.

    The herbicides which composed Agent Orange are long gone, decomposed a few months after they were applied. The best way to get rid of the dioxin in the soil is to expose it to ultra violet light. This is easily done by plowing the soil up and letting the sun's rays clean it.

    Should all the mountains be covered with trees as the video seems to indicate? No, what needs to be done first is to map the soils. Some soils are meant to grow grass and some soils are naturally adapted to be more favorable to trees.

    Well, good luck to the botanist for his effort but if they want to really get the job done they need to request assistance from the USDA Natural Resources Conservation Service. We do that kind of stuff all the time, and yes we do go overseas if requested.
    Last edited by Trailboss49; 20 Sep 07, 05:09.
    "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.

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    • #3
      They are going to try to get the US to pay for it. They have already been grumbling about this. It is just a matter of a little more time before we see these law suits.

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      • #4
        I think spraying defoliants was a crummy idea and even barbaric.

        I have seen and walked through it's results and drank the water from creeks and holes.

        It is amazing that anything that powerful was considered harmless.

        It was pretty good for destroying vegetation, though.

        I will not consume any food products, including coffee from that part of the world.

        I grew up on a farm and we did things that were unthinkable today.

        Our entire environment is a chemical stew these days, Agent Orange was a major addition to that in it's day.

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        • #5
          How long did Agent Orange need to take effect and kill all vegetation after spraying? months? weeks? did an area need to be sprayed several times?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Boonierat View Post
            How long did Agent Orange need to take effect and kill all vegetation after spraying? months? weeks? did an area need to be sprayed several times?
            Agent Orange was comprised of a mixture of 2 different herbicides.

            2,4,5-Tricholorphonexyacidic acid and 2,4-Dichlorophoenxyacidic acid.

            Both are naturally occuring hormones in GRASSES which produce growth.

            2,4,5-T worked basically on trees. 2,4-D worked basically on shrubs, flowers, vines, etc.

            Normally the vegetation will turn brown in 1 to 3 days. The leaves will then fall off in another 1 to 2 weeks. Sometimes this defoliation killed the plants. Sometimes there were enough root reserves for the plant to come back with new leaves.

            If the trees were killed then the growth would have to start from seedlings. Most of the time the areas were bare for a period of weeks but then several of the plants would put on new foliage. If the same area was sprayed fairly often then the trees would eventually die from lack of food reserves in the roots.

            Most areas were sprayed several times if it was deemed necessary to keep it bare, some areas were sprayed much less frequently.

            Both of these herbicides in their pure form is pretty safe for virtually all animals and fish. It was the dioxin which was a byproduct of the manufacturing process which causes all the environmental problems.

            2,4-D was actually the first herbicide ever manufactured by people. It was developed by the USA Army Chemical Corps at the last few months of WWII. If the atomic bombs had not worked to defeat Japan plans were underway to manufacture enough of these herbicides to spray all of the islands which make up Japan and starve the population to death.
            "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.

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            • #7
              Good info TB. In regards to them wanting US monetary assistance for the cleanup, I say okay on one condition, we want all our POW/MIA issues opened up and accounted for. Especially ones where ones witnessed the POW's but then these men were never returned to us after the war, dead or alive. Tell them to open their books and we will open our wallet.
              Hopefully our government will grow a spine when it comes down to this, if it ever does.

              D1

              Mad Dog deserves to come home along with all the others!!!!!!!
              "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
              - Col. David Hackworth

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              • #8
                Thanks for the info mr trailboss .
                SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by DeltaOne View Post
                  Good info TB. In regards to them wanting US monetary assistance for the cleanup, I say okay on one condition, we want all our POW/MIA issues opened up and accounted for. Especially ones where ones witnessed the POW's but then these men were never returned to us after the war, dead or alive. Tell them to open their books and we will open our wallet.
                  Hopefully our government will grow a spine when it comes down to this, if it ever does.

                  D1

                  Mad Dog deserves to come home along with all the others!!!!!!!
                  There is no real need for assistance by America. Jungles are very good at restoring themselves, even if completely cleared away. The primary problem presented here is an attempt to agriscape the land at the same time.

                  Considering the savage barbarity with which our POW's were treated, we owe Viet Nam nothing. I think it is they who owe us, and always will. Maybe the Russians and the Chinese can foot the bill.

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                  • #10
                    I am in total agreement with you MM. At the same time, in an effort to normalize and progress our ties with Vietnam, I can see our government in the future waffling on the issue and giving them some type (financial, agri, etc.) aid.
                    You are very right in my mind, we owe them nothing. In fact, had they obeyed the terms of the treaty we signed with them, it wouldn't be Hanoi's problem. See point 6 http://www.wintersoldier.com/staticp...40220180726144
                    Seeing how they broke the terms, I say no aid. On the other hand, if they were to return all MIA/POW remains and give us info on troops who ended up in Russia, Loas, China, etc., I would be willing to negociate for the sake of the vets who lost friends and more importantly, for those who lost a son/daughter, a dad, relative, etc.

                    D1
                    "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
                    - Col. David Hackworth

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                    • #11
                      Man I can't believe you referenced anything from the Winter Soldier bunch.
                      Liars and commie sympathisers.
                      Remember the hearings when they ponied up Kerry and his merry men, all calling us torturers, murderers, criminals and anything else they could dredge up and attempt to potray as the norm.
                      A lot of those guys were not real vets.
                      We had a reparations agreement that peanut Carter pulled the plug on which might have resolved some of this.
                      One big issue that is generlly ignored is thar 2/3 of the VN population were born after we left.

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                      • #12
                        The only reason I used that reference was because it showed the terms of the treaty, PERIOD!!!!
                        Did I quote any of their usual b.s? NO, so get off it! As far as those born after the war, what's the point? We are talking about the governments here of both countries, not the common people. If you have read my posts, I care for those people BUT, I don't give a tinker's damn for the commie government, who you should have a serious problem with for how they treated our POW's.

                        v D1
                        "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
                        - Col. David Hackworth

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DeltaOne View Post
                          I am in total agreement with you MM. At the same time, in an effort to normalize and progress our ties with Vietnam, I can see our government in the future waffling on the issue and giving them some type (financial, agri, etc.) aid.
                          You are very right in my mind, we owe them nothing. In fact, had they obeyed the terms of the treaty we signed with them, it wouldn't be Hanoi's problem.
                          I agree. This is all correct. Had they not violated the treaty and occupied the South these things would be the problems of the government of South Vietnam. The United States owes them nothing. Of course, what is right doesn't always carry the day.

                          Unfortunately I agree with you about possible aid too. I can see how this could happen. Either as part of some trade agreement, or more likely as part of some law suit. They are already talking about this. When the Occupying president of Vietnam visited the US recently he brought up this issue with President Bush. Now, nothing is going to happen under this president, but it would not surprise me if a future president will be sympathetic to their arguments.

                          Probably more likely than some agreement with the federal government will be a legal action. I believe it is highly likely that they will file a law suit. Either in a federal court, most likely the 9th district, and a federal judge or Jury will be open to their arguments, or a state court if their strategy is to go after the manufacturer. My guess is we will see both.

                          We have only heard the beginnings of this. We certainly have not heard the last.
                          Last edited by Miss Saigon; 24 Sep 07, 14:33.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DeltaOne View Post
                            I am in total agreement with you MM. At the same time, in an effort to normalize and progress our ties with Vietnam, I can see our government in the future waffling on the issue and giving them some type (financial, agri, etc.) aid.
                            You are very right in my mind, we owe them nothing. In fact, had they obeyed the terms of the treaty we signed with them, it wouldn't be Hanoi's problem. See point 6 http://www.wintersoldier.com/staticp...40220180726144
                            Seeing how they broke the terms, I say no aid. On the other hand, if they were to return all MIA/POW remains and give us info on troops who ended up in Russia, Loas, China, etc., I would be willing to negociate for the sake of the vets who lost friends and more importantly, for those who lost a son/daughter, a dad, relative, etc.

                            D1
                            Generally, I would agree except that I would reverse the order. Solid information and physical evidence before any attempt whatsoever to talk about deals.

                            I lost a lot of good friends over there, and they didn't deserve to die in vain so that some corporation can now open up a new market.

                            Of course, I was only a soldier - I'm obviously not politically correct.

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                            • #15
                              I agree with you very much on this point MM.
                              "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
                              - Col. David Hackworth

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