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  • I can't watch this film

    It is too much for me to handle.




  • #2
    I don't recall hearing of this film, but it looks like a good one. But if it does the job right, then yes, I can see why it would be nearly impossible for you to watch it.
    Life is change. Built models for decades.
    Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
    I didn't for a long time either.

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    • #3
      I will have to see if I can find this film on DVD. I also had not heard of it (perhaps Uncle Ho's government is suppressing it?). I certainly know a lot of people who need to see and could name some who post on this forum who don't think badly about communists.
      "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.

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      • #4
        This film was made by some California VN who are in the film industry. It wasn't a box office smash and by now may be on DVD.

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        • #5
          Looks like a great one, probably hard to find on this side of the pond though. Makes me think, anyone know anything about guerilla movements in Vietnam after the capture of Saigon? I believe some units of the Airborne Division continued the fight in the mountains of III Corps for a while but I guess they didn't last long.

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          • #6
            There has been a long tradition of banditry and military gangs in the border regions and some other areas.
            Some of these reemerged and continue their activities.
            I think a lot of Americans were so tired of the war that the thousands of boat people and their tribulations were not a big consideration.
            Even though some ARVN fewunits stood up and fought like tigers at the very end despite our lack of support, they did not represent what happened during our long valient attemts at propping them up.
            A lot of the boat people were supporters or part of the defeated corrupt regime and were something of a burdon to us. They were getting out of Dodge rather than face any consequences from their own people.
            They suffered badly and nothing justifies that, but history remains.
            We spent many long years and thousands of lives and tremendous social upheaval at home in trying to support a cause which was failed by those most directly involved.
            They greatly depended on other to fight their war, then expected to be taken in and sheltered rather than face the consequences.
            I lived with Viets, Cambodians, and Montagnards for 11 months in a border camp.

            I got to see a lot of what I am talking about 1st hand. I have a lot of respect for the Cambodian and Montagnard warriors I was priveleged to serve and fight with. I have mixed feelings about the vietnamese troops and government.
            I'll illustrate with one story about being besieged in the fall of '69.
            We were taking a lot of accurate incomeing, lots of casualties.
            We put in a request for a load of steel pots and flak jackets.
            The AF dropped in a couple pallet loads.
            The LLDB had all this stuff collected up and issued it out to the CIDG at the rate of one month's pay. All we could do was watch.
            This was very typical.
            When the NVA got tired of shelling the camp, they shifted over to the village and killed women and kids just for fun. That also seemed typical.
            I felt sorry for the boat people but most of them started out to beat some kind of consequences they had brought on themselves.
            The folks who need the most consideration are the Montagnards who were treated worse than animals and continue to suffer.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Trung-si View Post
              I lived with Viets, Cambodians, and Montagnards for 11 months in a border camp..
              I do not believe this gave you a wide range of experience with all levels of Vietnamese life.

              This kind of talk is the same as when people take incidents like My Lai and use it to generalize over all of the Americans in Vietnam. I do not believe that these kinds of sweeping generalizations are helpful in the debate about Vietnam.

              I got to see a lot of what I am talking about 1st hand.
              At a camp near the border with Cambodia. And let me state, I am sure that you speak the truth about the situation in your camp. I am familiar with the racism displayed by many Vietnamese toward the mountain people. I have posted about this before.

              We put in a request for a load of steel pots and flak jackets.
              The AF dropped in a couple pallet loads.
              The LLDB had all this stuff collected up and issued it out to the CIDG at the rate of one month's pay. All we could do was watch.
              But just as the treatment blacks were receiving in some places in the United States at the same time in history is not necessarily representative of you, the racism of some Vietnamese cannot be generalized over the entire population.

              This was very typical.
              Yes, many people thought that about racism in the USA too. Much of the world still does. Many Americans believe this today. Look at the political debate and you see plenty of this race baiting politics. I believe president Clinton even said that race relations today are the worst they have been since reconstruction. This is politics and does not present a clear picture of the United States.

              I felt sorry for the boat people but most of them started out to beat some kind of consequences they had brought on themselves.
              Interesting argument since the Americans ran the war and relegated the South Vietnamese to a secondary role. Kennedy had Diem removed because Diem refused to let the US run the war and didn't want the Americans to introduce significant ground forces. The Vietnamese hardly had any say in their own destiny.

              For every personal example or example from your colleagues you can give me of a corrupt or problematic Vietnamese, I can give you a book title written by an American serviceman (Including Special Forces) who speaks highly of the dedication and selflessness of the Vietnamese during the war. For every example you can give me of Vietnamese corruption I can find examples of American corruption in Vietnam. Often these two went hand in had.

              I believe that sweeping generalizations have not helped the debate over the Vietnam war. They have been used to color perceptions of both my people and yours who served. This has been extremely deleterious. We need to move beyond the white on Yellow, and yellow on white stereotypes to get a more meaningful picture of the Vietnam war.
              Last edited by Miss Saigon; 15 Sep 07, 13:40.

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              • #8
                Dvd

                The DVD is due out October 30 and will include a special features segment of Vietnamese refugees talking about their experiences.

                I saw the film at an Asian film festival earlier this year, introduced by a young VN-American online news editor, in ao dai - obviously well spoken and accomplished. There were a large number of Vietnamese in the audience, of course, and I'm sure the viewing was difficult for many of them. Still, I saw no one leave the theater. It was a very rapt viewing.

                www.RadioVietnam.net

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                • #9
                  Looks like a good story, although seeing the plight of those we left behind will be touching.

                  Thanks MS for the thread.

                  D1
                  "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
                  - Col. David Hackworth

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                  • #10
                    Fortunately for me personally, I was too young and don't remember my own experience with this journey. I am sure this is a blessing for me.

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                    • #11
                      Still, I am sorry you had to make it. I wish we would have held the line, tried to win in an all out fashion and made your home a safe place for you. Many of us tried our best.

                      D1
                      "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
                      - Col. David Hackworth

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                      • #12
                        Sorry Ms Saigon, I am calling BS on your entire post.
                        Don't for one minute believe my whole experience was colored by one little corner of the situation.
                        I got to be 60 years old by living 60 years and doing a bit of studying, comparing notes and having other adventures.
                        I am a member of a couple SF-only discussion and study groups that spend a lot of time on these issues.
                        It is not a subject I take lightly nor would comment on lightly.
                        For instance, selling the issued equipment was totally about greed and corruption, race played no part. We had a VN company who also paid.
                        I am somewhat familiar with annamese history and the dynamics involved reference their exodus from China.
                        I'm not going tit for tat on anything.
                        I am one of those who carried the load for those who stood and watched.
                        You keep your opinions and I'll keep mine.

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                        • #13
                          TS - While we were there an witnessed many things, we must remember that we did not lose our homes and freedom to live where our families grew up. Yes, everyone is entitled to their feelings and personal points of view. I witnessed whole arvn companies disappear when they were fired on. It didn't impress me in any way but I still try to show those who have fought or supported us after the war a measure of respect.
                          "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
                          - Col. David Hackworth

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Trung-si View Post

                            I am a member of a couple SF-only discussion and study groups that spend a lot of time on these issues.
                            Somewhat of a parochial sampling. There were many other types of positions that Americans fulfilled in Vietnam beyond special forces. Memoirs written by those who served as advisers are particularly telling.

                            You should not assume that I don't spend quite a bit of time "on these issues" msyelf. It is as meaningful to me as it is to you.

                            It is not a subject I take lightly nor would comment on lightly.
                            Nor do I.

                            For instance, selling the issued equipment was totally about greed and corruption, race played no part.
                            Since we are talking about personal experiences, I happen to have met and American supply sergeant who was so proud to tell me all about how he stole everything from washing machines to gold watches from the American supply chain and sold them on the Black market in Saigon. The difference is that when I read in books or hear accounts such as these I am not using going to use them to impugn the integrity of the entire American military establishment in Vietnam.

                            I am one of those who carried the load for those who stood and watched.
                            Well, it is worth pointing out again that if you carried the load while others watched then you did this because the Americans set it up this way. I don't know about you, but if someone came to my home, took over, and didn't allow me to have any say in how my household was run I might become a bit discouraged too.

                            I have seen ARVN casualties figures reported at over half a million men. I suspect that many of these were not just shot in the back.

                            The ARVN dead have no wall memorial, and the few cemeteries in Vietnam that have not been desecrated are in a state of neglected repair and overgrown. It is hard for me to imagine that most of these men were cowards.

                            You keep your opinions and I'll keep mine.
                            Actually, you posted your opinions and I posted mine. Neither one of us are "keeping our opinions". It is quite obvious that we have different points of view. Fortunately that is what these forums are all about. People are free to offer their differing points of view and anyone who chooses can discuss them.

                            I suspect, that even though you and I have far different opinions of the nature of the war in Vietnam, we probably are both participating in these forums for similar reasons.
                            Last edited by Miss Saigon; 16 Sep 07, 23:20.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DeltaOne View Post
                              Still, I am sorry you had to make it. I wish we would have held the line, tried to win in an all out fashion and made your home a safe place for you. Many of us tried our best.

                              D1
                              I have said it before and I will continue to say it. For all of the policy flaws that occurred during the The war in Vietnam it was not lost by the soldiers on the battle field. The vast majority of the Vietnamese diaspora are very appreciative of the sacrifices made by the American soldiers in Vietnam.


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