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A question about weapons for those who are 'Nam nuts...

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  • A question about weapons for those who are 'Nam nuts...

    A: When was tthe M-16A1 introduced into combat?
    B: Were different versions of AK-47s that came out at different times..or if the NVA or viet cong use?
    C: Did the NVA supply the Viet Cong with weapons, or did they use stolen ordiances?
    I am a simple man. I am by no means smarter than the average man. I am average...yet genius.

  • #2
    Originally posted by comm. waffle View Post
    A: When was tthe M-16A1 introduced into combat?..
    Don't know. Boonie probably does.

    .
    B: Were different versions of AK-47s that came out at different times..or if the NVA or viet cong use?..
    There were qualitative differences among them depending on which communist bloc country the AK came from. Some were better than others.

    ..
    C: Did the NVA supply the Viet Cong with weapons, or did they use stolen ordiances?
    Both.

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    • #3
      The M16 was issued first to the USAF then the USA in 1964, and arrived in Vietnam with the first Army combat units (173d Airborne Brigade, 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division, 1st cavalry Division). It might have been present in Vietnam before with the SF though. The M16A1 was adopted in February 1967, don't know when it arrived in Vietnam exactly.

      As for the VC, they used a motley collection of weapons at first, russian, chinese, US, french, british, german, even japanese...they got a more standardized armament as war progressed and their ranks being gradually filled with NVAs.
      Last edited by Boonierat; 16 Jul 07, 00:17.

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      • #4
        Sorry with the constant bombardment for all the questions guys, but I want to make sure I get my years and stuff right.
        So which weapons would go with which for the same time period ands the other?

        on the Left -down, is A, B, C. On the right-going down is D, E, F and the middle is G.
        If you guys can, could you link them up?
        I am a simple man. I am by no means smarter than the average man. I am average...yet genius.

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        • #5
          I can't tell the difference between several types of AKs sorry (russian, chinese, eastern bloc...) but all these weapons were in use in NVA units from the beginning of the US intervention.

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          • #6
            I think {C} is the Chinese AK, it has the pointed muzzle, Russians have the flat muzzle if I recall correctly....
            "This life..., you know, "the life." Youíre not gonna get any medals, kid. This is not a hero business; you donít shoot people from a mile a way. You gotta stand right next to them... blow their heads off."

            BoRG

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            • #7
              Virtually every kind of small arms ever manufactured was found in Vietnam. I saw English Enfield sniper rifles, German mausers, American WWII burp guns, Sten machine guns, bolt action Springfields, German Lugers, etc. The VC/NVA picked up ammunition wherever they found it. The CIA routinely left behind loaded clips for the AK-47, with a litte C4 instead of gunpowder. This would blow up the rifles. They then instigated rumors that all ammunition coming out of China did this. This led to many enemy troops throwing away batches of perfectly good bullets coming out of China.
              "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.

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              • #8
                Well, according to worldguns.com they are all Chinese (if the RPG-2 can be manufactored in CHina). Thanks for you help guys!!!
                I am a simple man. I am by no means smarter than the average man. I am average...yet genius.

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                • #9
                  Little more on the "bad ammo"
                  Not that casual or routine.
                  I knew some guys involved in this and cannot remember the project name right now.

                  There were a few occaisions where resealed lots of randomly booby trapped ammo were reinserted into ammo caches. Really crazy activity.

                  The purpose was the same, to cause mistrust of the ammo.

                  This was highly classified at the time and was the reason for the general ban on firing captured ammo.

                  There is at least one case of a SF fatalitiy using this stuff.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Trung-si View Post
                    I knew some guys involved in this and cannot remember the project name right now.

                    The purpose was the same, to cause mistrust of the ammo.

                    This was highly classified at the time and was the reason for the general ban on firing captured ammo.

                    There is at least one case of a SF fatalitiy using this stuff.
                    I read about this in a book somewhere and have always wondered how effective the program was? it seems it didn't slow them down much, but who knows. It seemed like a great idea to cause them to lose confidence in the ammo. Maybe they didn't get to plant enough?

                    M.S.
                    Last edited by Miss Saigon; 16 Jul 07, 12:24.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Miss.Saigon View Post
                      I read about this in a book somewhere and have always wondered how effective the program was? it seems it didn't slow them down much, but who knows. It seemed like a great idea to cause them to lose confidence in the ammo. Maybe they didn't get to plant enough?

                      M.S.
                      I think that when they started realizing that the ammo they found in the field kept exploding, to stick to the ammo they ordered formt eh Chinese or Russians or who ever.
                      I am a simple man. I am by no means smarter than the average man. I am average...yet genius.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Boonierat View Post
                        I can't tell the difference between several types of AKs sorry (russian, chinese, eastern bloc...) but all these weapons were in use in NVA units from the beginning of the US intervention.
                        So for a diorama, would you recommend using an M-14 or M16 going with the weapons above?
                        I am a simple man. I am by no means smarter than the average man. I am average...yet genius.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by comm. waffle View Post
                          So for a diorama, would you recommend using an M-14 or M16 going with the weapons above?
                          Depends on what US units you are modelling, and when. The Marines kept the M14 until about mid-1967. The most elite US Army formations arrived in Vietnam already equiped with the M16 (173d A/B, 101st, 1st Cav) but other like the 1st and 25th Infantry Divisions deployed with the M14 and retained it until early 1966.

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                          • #14
                            Seems to me I heard of SOG teams planting the modified ammo.

                            Differences between AK's are minor. The chicom ones usually had folding spike bayonets attached.
                            Delegate, MN GOP.

                            PATRIA SI, COMUNISMO NO

                            http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/p...?id=1156276727

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by comm. waffle View Post
                              Sorry with the constant bombardment for all the questions guys, but I want to make sure I get my years and stuff right.
                              So which weapons would go with which for the same time period ands the other?

                              on the Left -down, is A, B, C. On the right-going down is D, E, F and the middle is G.
                              If you guys can, could you link them up?
                              A is a model the original AK-47 with a machined receiver.

                              B is a model of the Type 56, i.e. Chinese made copy of the AK-47, again with a machined receiver, but fitted with a spike bayonet. This type is the most common type of AK-47 found in NVA and Viet Cong hands during the 1960's, as large numbers were supplied by PRC before 1972.

                              C is an AKM, an AK-47 with a stamped metal receiver rather than a machined receiver. Plastic magazines were not used during the Vietnam War at all. Indeed, I don't think they were ever used before the AK-74 started to be issued.

                              E is of course a SKS. Can't tell from the picture, but if it has a spike bayonet, it's a Chinese made SKS. If it has a blade bayonet, it's a Soviet made SKS. (Rather confusingly, the SKS is also called the Type 56 by the Chinese. The SKS is the Type 56 carbine, while the AK-47 is called the Type 56 Assault Rifle.)

                              F is a RPD light machine gun that uses the same ammo as the AK-47, but is belt-fed from a 50-round belt contained in the drum. Not sure how commonly used this weapon was, as I have never seen a photo during the Vietnam War where this weapon was present.

                              G is a Chinese Type 67 stick grenade. I think it has been mentioned before that this is a copy of the German stick grenade with a shorter handle, and sometimes issued with a 'pineapple' head. I think it has also been mentioned that it is unreliable.
                              Last edited by Ogukuo72; 16 Jul 07, 21:44.

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