Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Son Tay rescue 11/21/1970

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Son Tay rescue 11/21/1970

    I am looking for information on the Son Tay rescue, specifically involvement by Khmer Krom Special Forces including Kanseign Sar. I am looking for independent verification of information I have received detailing the involvement of such forces in the recon/intelligence areas as well as in the actual mission. I am NOT an expert in this field and greatly appreciate someone pointing me to the right resource. Thank you!!

  • #2
    The book on Son Tay is The Raid by Benjamin F. Schemmer. I have not read it and do not know if it contains the information you are looking for.

    At The Hurricane's Eye by Greg Walker contained an interesting chapter on Son Tay. I read it some years ago but don't recall it mentioning Khmer Krom. It did mention recon work by a MACV-SOG recon team.
    "Shoot for the epaulets, boys! Shoot for the epaulets!" - Daniel Morgan

    Comment


    • #3
      Not sure if this is what you are looking for but I did read about 1,100-man Khmer Krom special forces who participated in the operation (not sure what for), encircled by NVA divisions (not sure where and when), while in support of the US commandos conducting the raid (not sure exactly how), brilliantly fought off those divisions who were in hot pursuit on foot of the US commandos (long before evacuated by choppers), and (they Khmer Krom) obliterated by B-52s. Some seven survivors made it all the way to Khe Sanh where they met a US SOG RT led by a black officer who saved them.

      Perhaps this would make more sense to you than to me.

      Comment


      • #4
        Never heard of Khmer Krong or SVN SF in support of the raid. How someone would infiltrate a brigade of these guys to within 30 miles of Hanoi without being discovered is a big question. Here's a link I found with a quick google search:

        https://groups.google.com/forum/m/?f...sc/pWxMYyzyqns

        I read thru it and it just doesn't make sense.

        "Dara who commanded three hundred Kanseign Sar heard on the radio communication the courageous and stoic fight to death of their Khmer Krom brothers. There was no way out. They were surrounded by the North Vietnamese division in hot pursuit of the US raiders. They fought heroically to protect the 56 Green Berets raiders. The North Vietnamese killed almost all the Khmer Krom raiders."

        The exfil was by air, so why these guys were on the ground to keep the PAVN from following the raiders, as stated in the "article" (and I use that term loosely), just doesn't pass the smell test.

        Anyway, I am far from an expert on the raid, but I have read up on it a little, and have heard stories about it. Never heard of any support outside of US forces, for the operation.

        Here is another clip:

        http://cacje-news.blogspot.com/2009/..._3954.html?m=1

        Again, very ambiguous. How did they get in? By implication, the article says infil by helicopter...simultaneously with the raid. How many helicopters would it take to bring in over 1000 guys? Again, the second link does little to shed light on the operation in anyway that makes sense. Nothing about the purpose of a brigade sized force supporting the Operation. In addition, the source of the article is The Khmer People's Power Movement...so, take it for what it is worth.
        Last edited by don744; 30 Dec 12, 18:49.
        There are no stupid questions,but there are alot of inquisitive idiots. -Hankwill

        "A special breed of man will sacrifice everything for the security and freedom of so many unthankful others"
        - Ron Piper

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by concernedcitiz View Post
          I am looking for information on the Son Tay rescue, specifically involvement by Khmer Krom Special Forces including Kanseign Sar. I am looking for independent verification of information I have received detailing the involvement of such forces in the recon/intelligence areas as well as in the actual mission. I am NOT an expert in this field and greatly appreciate someone pointing me to the right resource. Thank you!!
          Where did you happen to come across your information?
          There are no stupid questions,but there are alot of inquisitive idiots. -Hankwill

          "A special breed of man will sacrifice everything for the security and freedom of so many unthankful others"
          - Ron Piper

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree with Don on this one. I too have never heard about any 'outside' help in any of the info I have seen. This was a 'very' classified action and it just doesn't make sense that they would bring in all these other men.
            "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
            - Col. David Hackworth

            Comment


            • #7
              I spent several years at Ft. Bragg with Special Operations and knew some who took part on the raid. I never heard of any large scale on the ground external help.

              Comment


              • #8
                I served with several Son Tay raiders prior to the raid, who I occasionally talked to after, and counted two raiders as friends, namely Tommy Powell and Kenny McMullin. None of them ever mentioned Cambodian troops, and Tommy Powell had served with Khmer Serai troops along the Cambodian border in III Corps.

                I have a copy of Schemmer's book, and there is no mention of any such effort in it.

                The very reason that Ivory Coast was planned n the States was to avoid compromise in Vietnam. Son Tay took place after the "Green Beret Murder" case in which a certain Thai Khac Chuyen was murdered for suspicion of being a triple agent. Chuyen was part of Project Gamma, which dealt with Cambodia and the Khmer Serei and KKK. Furthermore, the U.S. suspected that the Viet Cong had plants within the Vietnamese Armed Forces, and desired to make Son Tay a unilateral operation to lessen the chance of compromise. It is therefore highly doubtful that the U.S. would have chanced compromise by involving the White Scarves in this operation. Besides, at the time, In November 1970, all the Khmer Serai and Khmer Krom fighters they could muster were desperately needed in Cambodia.

                How did this Cambodian battalion get into North Vietnam? They could certainly NOT pass for locals, neither in the Northern Highlands, nor anywhere near Son Tay, nor in the NVA occupied parts of Laos they would have had to cross to get there.

                Sounds like a Cambodian version of Gayle Rivers' "The Five Fingers" farce, trying to take in the suckers.
                dit: Lirelou

                Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá ǵ!

                Comment


                • #9
                  First - thank you to everyone who posted - I hit a gold mine. Altus - some elements of this story are the same. In the narrative I got the black officer was a "CIA handler" called Capt. Ed Neal. don744 - I came across this information because I have done a lot of pro-bono legal work in the Cambodian community - at one point I took a phone call from an older Cambodian who told me about his involvement in Son Tay. He later sent me a very detailed narrative (hard copy) apparently created by a "Vy Neal former Kansiegn Sar Commander" (battalion #149 - 310 soldiers). The narrative requested money damages. I told the person that there was no way they could get money damages for their story and it would probably not be worth their while to try. I could, however, try to get them some recognition. In any event, I put the file away. Until today when I was doing some year end cleaning and came across it. Again - I don't know a lot about how that war was fought - but I do know that Khmer Krom are almost by definition in the south - so why would they be used 30 some odd miles outside Hanoi? It is a very detailed account - but also pretty detailed in how much money the soldiers were promised and how much they are demanding. Hard to believe it is all a crock - but who knows. Thanks again and any further thoughts on this are welcomed.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What I can't figure out is where this other element fit in. As said before, the training was done in the US, with practice runs being conducted at Duke Field (Eglin Airforce Base). While almost 500 volunteered to go, the numbers were pared down to 100. This was further pared down to 56. Why add the 'bodes' when 44 fully trained US special ops men were left behind? Security was the number one priority which is why the practice runs were held where they were. To add an element that just may leak out info doesn't make sense. The raiders have their own site at the following address: http://sontayraider.com/history.htm
                    "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
                    - Col. David Hackworth

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lirelou View Post
                      Sounds like a Cambodian version of Gayle Rivers' "The Five Fingers" farce, trying to take in the suckers.
                      I think every SF guy has read that book.
                      There are no stupid questions,but there are alot of inquisitive idiots. -Hankwill

                      "A special breed of man will sacrifice everything for the security and freedom of so many unthankful others"
                      - Ron Piper

                      Comment

                      Latest Topics

                      Collapse

                      Working...
                      X