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US POW's - Why We Never Found Them

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Trailboss49 View Post
    Indeed there were several American military men who were captured in good health who were never turned over.

    Why? Many reasons. Some were tortured to death and the North Vietnamese do not want our forensic teams documenting this. Some were given to the USSR never to be seen or heard from again. Some died of 'natural' causes due to the way they were inturned and inhumanely treated to be dumped into a hole in the ground.

    Then there are some who at the end were taken out of North Vietnam and given to the NV Laos allieds to keep as ransom. Thus, at the end of the conflict the commies could legitimately say, "We have no more prisoners" and they would technically be correct. What happened to those kept for ransom? Eventually they died. They were never revealed since if the NV did reveal the American public would have in a unified voice cried, "Nuke the commie bastards".
    Would you mind elaborating on the intelligence or source of information that you used for your conclusion that amongst the 1660 currently listed Missing and Unaccounted for from the Vietnam war some were given to the USSR or taken out of North Vietnam and given to the NV Laos to keep as ransom.

    My good friend, Joe Schlatter who was former Chief, Analysis Branch, Defense Intelligence Agency Special Office for POW-MIA Affairs from Dec 88 - Jul 90, Chief, Defense Intelligence Agency Special Office for POW-MIA Affairs July 1993 - March 1995, and Deputy Director, Defense POW-MIA Office until his retirement would respectfully disagree with you.

    http://www.miafacts.org/index.htm
    Vietnam - US Army, Aug 66-Feb 68
    Vietnam - USG Civilian, Feb 68-Aug 71
    Special Agent/Criminal Investigator - US Customs Jan 72-Jan 2001
    Wannabe Concert and Sports Photographer

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DeltaOne View Post
      I still believe that at the end of the war, there were POW's that were not returned.
      Even today, I still believe that there are known about graves that for whatever the reason, the information hasn't been passed on. I just don't buy it that a captured team of SF, SEALS, Recon or pilots just vanish without ANYONE knowing.
      I have even heard from some that our government knew but stifled the info to save face after they declared no POW's remained in enemy hands. Who the hell knows for sure???
      Regarding captured team of SF, SEALS, Recon vanishing without anyone knowing - Were there in fact teams of Special Forces, Seals, or Recon who are currently listed as missing in action?

      I couldn't find any instances of Navy Seals being declared MIA, although Seal Teams 1 and 2 suffered 48 KIA.

      Nor could I find any instances of teams of Special Forces vanishing - I think that Lang Vei might be the single instance of multiple MIA's at one time, that the 5th SF suffered during the Vietnam War (but if I'm wrong I'm sure that Lirelou will set me straight).

      The aftermath of Lang Vei resulted in 3 Captured and Returned at Operation Homecoming, 5 Missing with 3 remains recovered, and the remaining 2 still listed as missing although presumed dead (Phillips and Holt)
      Vietnam - US Army, Aug 66-Feb 68
      Vietnam - USG Civilian, Feb 68-Aug 71
      Special Agent/Criminal Investigator - US Customs Jan 72-Jan 2001
      Wannabe Concert and Sports Photographer

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      • #18
        Originally posted by nbrooks503 View Post
        Regarding captured team of SF, SEALS, Recon vanishing without anyone knowing - Were there in fact teams of Special Forces, Seals, or Recon who are currently listed as missing in action?

        I couldn't find any instances of Navy Seals being declared MIA, although Seal Teams 1 and 2 suffered 48 KIA.

        Nor could I find any instances of teams of Special Forces vanishing - I think that Lang Vei might be the single instance of multiple MIA's at one time, that the 5th SF suffered during the Vietnam War (but if I'm wrong I'm sure that Lirelou will set me straight).

        The aftermath of Lang Vei resulted in 3 Captured and Returned at Operation Homecoming, 5 Missing with 3 remains recovered, and the remaining 2 still listed as missing although presumed dead (Phillips and Holt)
        Sorry for the messed up point I was trying to make. I simply meant that men from these units did go missing, never to been seen again. I just posted last week about three members of ccn whose remains were sent back and I'd.
        "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
        - Col. David Hackworth

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        • #19
          Bright Light

          http://www.miafacts.org/bright_review.htm
          "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
          - Col. David Hackworth

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          • #20
            Has anyone heard of an Australian journalist who, after Russia opened kgb files, found information showing American pows were there for interrogation. There was a dateline show with stone Phillips detailing this information. On the show Boris Yeltsin agrees that these documents where authentic.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by nbrooks503 View Post

              Would you mind elaborating on the intelligence or source of information that you used for your conclusion that amongst the 1660 currently listed Missing and Unaccounted for from the Vietnam war some were given to the USSR or taken out of North Vietnam and given to the NV Laos to keep as ransom.

              My good friend, Joe Schlatter who was former Chief, Analysis Branch, Defense Intelligence Agency Special Office for POW-MIA Affairs from Dec 88 - Jul 90, Chief, Defense Intelligence Agency Special Office for POW-MIA Affairs July 1993 - March 1995, and Deputy Director, Defense POW-MIA Office until his retirement would respectfully disagree with you.

              http://www.miafacts.org/index.htm
              Great question, as I too am curious of the source(s). Nothing I have seen in 30+ years of studying the American POW experience during Vietnam provides any validity to American servicemen turned over to the Russians, Chinese, or Laotians, as part of a systematic program to either use them for intelligence purposes or as hostages for repatriations. Just nothing credible to support these allegations, yet there were plenty of people who "want to believe" this is so . . .

              RL

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              • #22
                This is a current interview of Diana West she wrote a book called “American betrayal”. In a recient interview, she says The George W. Bush administration released a report saying we “America” did leave soldiers behind. If anyone can find me a copy of this paper please let me know. My cousin was a POW in Vietnam who claimed he was sure they were there. I would love to vindicate him. I cut the video to the section where she”Diana West” talks about this report but am unable to upload it here.

                Also Stephen J Morris Australian reporter who found information about American POWs in Russia in the KGB files and American POW Ronald van Wees seen in propaganda film he was the Korean war pow

                https://youtu.be/5GaEoAE-zA0

                please scrub foward to minute 24 On the above u tube video
                A foot note this Memorial Day was the last Washington DC rolling thunder tour, thanks to all those who have kept the pow/mia issue alive,

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by RL64RL View Post

                  Great question, as I too am curious of the source(s). Nothing I have seen in 30+ years of studying the American POW experience during Vietnam provides any validity to American servicemen turned over to the Russians, Chinese, or Laotians, as part of a systematic program to either use them for intelligence purposes or as hostages for repatriations. Just nothing credible to support these allegations, yet there were plenty of people who "want to believe" this is so . . .

                  RL
                  good point.
                  One problem was that there was an attitude of vengeance in the new NVA administration that took years to dissipate.

                  Joan Baez in 'from Every Stage' recalls how the 're-education camp' mentality interfered with her best efforts to get the Post war boat people, and the Houmg refugees , released to the west To her credit, Ms. Baez and her people kept channels of communication open that softened NVA attitudes over time.

                  We discussed this in the AHS, and some responses were to call Baez a traitor, and to demand she make a public apology. Truly unfortunate, as her channels resulted, over time, in POW's being released and bodies recovered.

                  AHS has fallen from its best days....
                  Last edited by marktwain; 05 Jul 19, 16:10.
                  The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                  • #24
                    One of the facts kept from the public was that very senior Air Force officers specializing in Russian electronics were sent of B-52 missions both to improve penetration of air defenses and to test penetration of Soviet systems. These men, if captured, were sent to Russia to be interrogated about our own electronic and missile capabilities and on what we knew about their systems.

                    The USAF has never satisfactorily explained why those men were allowed to fly over enemy airspace.
                    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                    • #25
                      Thanks Mountain Man:
                      I never heard about the Air Force angle, but of course it only makes sense that highly trained soldiers would be those moved to the old Soviet Union. And there is an Australian journalist, Steven J Morris who found KGB files showing Americans being held in Russia, he was allowed access, during the period of openness. Boris Yeltzin confirmed these files as being authentic. But I’m mostly interested in what Diana West is talking about, when she says the George W Bush administration did a report confirming POW’s left behind in all wars since and including WW2. In any case you would have to suspend common sense to believe all mia’s from WW2 till the present, either fought to the death or died while captive.

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                      • #26
                        I’m currently reading Diana West’s American Betrayal, if u r interested please read these couple of lines.
                        Attached Files

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                        • #27
                          Thank for posting this Carl. I think I just may pick up this book and give it a read.
                          "War is hell, but actual combat is a motherf#cker"
                          - Col. David Hackworth

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