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  • #31
    OK, that's fine. But that isn't supporting documentation of your original contention.
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

      The statue was put up in 1906 when we should have known better.

      I never said Picton was as bad as any Nazi. I merely was denigrating your comment that suggests any slaver or torturer can have a statue, as long as they are brave and serve their country.

      Picton and torture: https://blog.library.wales/hidden-hi...isa-calderoni/

      Louisa Calderon: https://blog.library.wales/wp-conten...a-Calderon.jpg

      Louisa-Calderon.jpg
      Have you read the book mentioned?
      We are not now that strength which in old days
      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Massena View Post
        OK, that's fine. But that isn't supporting documentation of your original contention.

        What I have more than done is shown that Afro-Americans were at Trafalgar. They are on the plaque on Nelson's column. We can argue over the details of how many exactly, but enough were there to help to defeat Nappy.
        How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
        Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Massena View Post

          Have you read the book mentioned?
          I didn't need to, as evidenced by my post you used above. I'll repeat it:

          Picton and torture: https://blog.library.wales/hidden-hi...isa-calderoni/

          Louisa Calderon: https://blog.library.wales/wp-conten...a-Calderon.jpg

          Louisa-Calderon.jpg
          How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
          Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Von Richter View Post
            During the plague lockdown I've been re-basing my collection of Napoleonic figures. I found some unpainted command and 'personality' figures I'd forgotten about. So senior occifers and wotnot have been painted up and made into small vignettes. My favourite being Marshal Ney conferring with a General of Hussars, Ney's bareheaded of course, so you can tell who he is!
            I've done a bit of reading up on him and found this interesting little snippet, how true it is, I have no idea...
            He had the courage of Wolfe Tone and bravery of Bobby Sands.
            Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
            Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

            George S Patton

            Comment


            • #36
              Are not courage and bravery the same thing?

              And comparing Ney to Bobby Sands is an insult to Ney. He was a Provo and therefore a terrorist thereby being complicit in the murder of innocents. He wasn't 'brave' merely a little pissant.

              Wolfe Tone allegedly committed suicide before he could be hanged by the British/
              We are not now that strength which in old days
              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post

                I didn't need to, as evidenced by my post you used above. I'll repeat it:

                Picton and torture: https://blog.library.wales/hidden-hi...isa-calderoni/

                Louisa Calderon: https://blog.library.wales/wp-conten...a-Calderon.jpg

                Louisa-Calderon.jpg
                I would think that any information available would be enlightening. Sorry, my error.

                Or, are you afraid that any new information might contradict what you may believe?
                We are not now that strength which in old days
                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Massena View Post

                  I would think that any information available would be enlightening. Sorry, my error.

                  Or, are you afraid that any new information might contradict what you may believe?
                  Not if it is false evidence, and nothing you have said makes me want to spend money on a subject when the evidence is readily available on the net:

                  https://blog.library.wales/hidden-hi...isa-calderoni/Louisa-Calderon.jpghttps://blog.library.wales/wp-conten...a-Calderon.jpg
                  How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                  Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Having been a history teacher, and having researched the period for decades, I would suggest to you that at least half of the 'history' material on the internet is suspect. Wikipedia is unreliable and material posted that isn't vetted can be classified as suspect unless verified by other source material.

                    So your reluctance to listen to other sources and essentially relying on the internet gives the impression that much is being ignored, unfortunately.
                    We are not now that strength which in old days
                    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Massena View Post
                      Are not courage and bravery the same thing?

                      And comparing Ney to Bobby Sands is an insult to Ney. He was a Provo and therefore a terrorist thereby being complicit in the murder of innocents. He wasn't 'brave' merely a little pissant.

                      Wolfe Tone allegedly committed suicide before he could be hanged by the British/
                      That’s your opinion on the matter. Some of The British in 1776 and 1798 Would have viewed the American revolutionaries and Irish revolutionaries as so-called ”terrorists”. And there is no evidence of Tone or Sands committing war crimes. They are both held in a high regard in Ireland and worldwide to this day.

                      Ney, Tone and Sands were heroes and in the end they showed the greatest bravery in giving their life to fight against the British Empire. Tone btw a Irish Protestant gave a stirring speech before his death praising the unity of Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants in the fight for equality among man. And In the end Sands gave his life in a hunger strike. A non-violent manner but one of great bravery for the cause of Irish freedom.

                      My comparison was valid and right. Because after all the French have had a history of helping out the Irish including during the lifetime of Ney. Of course the French assisted the Irish in the 1798 Irish revolution.

                      People have compared Ney to all sorts of figures of history. I have provided my opinion and that’s all I have to say here.
                      Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                      Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                      George S Patton

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        You can make a case for Tone as a 'hero' but not Sands. He was a Provo and that means he belonged to a terrorist organization and was, therefore, a terrorist.

                        Neither had the status or record that Ney did and all you're doing here is insulting a distinguished soldier. I don't know of any association Ney had with the Irish as he was from eastern France and didn't command Irish troops.

                        Your 'historical' analogy is absolute nonsense and is completely disingenuous.

                        Why are you trying to glorify a terrorist?
                        We are not now that strength which in old days
                        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          "I have provided my opinion and that is all I have to say here."

                          Thanks for your opinion, goodbye now.



                          The long toll of the brave
                          Is not lost in darkness
                          Over the fruitful earth
                          And athwart the seas
                          Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                          Unquenchable forever.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Massena View Post
                            Having been a history teacher, and having researched the period for decades, I would suggest to you that at least half of the 'history' material on the internet is suspect. Wikipedia is unreliable and material posted that isn't vetted can be classified as suspect unless verified by other source material.

                            So your reluctance to listen to other sources and essentially relying on the internet gives the impression that much is being ignored, unfortunately.
                            Much of 'history' on the internet is unreliable. Hopefully I can tell the difference. Wikipedia is often unreliable, but it is often a good place to start a search.

                            My reluctance to listen to your specific source is based on the fact that it is a single source, and requires me to spend money on what I currently consider your opinion, not fact.

                            If you wish to repeat what is stated in the text on this thread, I will read it.
                            How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                            Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
                              My reluctance to listen to your specific source is based on the fact that it is a single source, and requires me to spend money on what I currently consider your opinion, not fact.
                              And that reluctance, my dear Pot Noddle, is wot separates them as knows wot they're on about...
                              and them as makes themselves look a bit daft on t'internet forums!


                              The long toll of the brave
                              Is not lost in darkness
                              Over the fruitful earth
                              And athwart the seas
                              Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                              Unquenchable forever.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
                                My reluctance to listen to your specific source is based on the fact that it is a single source, and requires me to spend money on what I currently consider your opinion, not fact.
                                The reluctance to 'entertain' other source material indicates a lack of historical background as well as a prejudicial viewpoint based on current early 21st century fads posing as history.
                                We are not now that strength which in old days
                                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                                Comment

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