Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Storming the breach at Badajoz!!!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    'Taking the gloves off' is something of an understatement, although the mutineers and their supporters had demonstrated equal brutality.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by jf42 View Post

      'The British Army in Egypt 1801: An Underrated Army Comes of Age.' (Helion, 2018)
      Thanks!
      We are not now that strength which in old days
      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by jf42 View Post
        'Taking the gloves off' is something of an understatement, although the mutineers and their supporters had demonstrated equal brutality.
        The executions of some of the mutineers were somewhat 'exuberant.'
        We are not now that strength which in old days
        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by jf42 View Post

          'The British Army in Egypt 1801: An Underrated Army Comes of Age.' (Helion, 2018)
          Carol Divall is an excellent historian in her field.

          Here's what she says in said book:

          Page 97 (The British Army in Action) of The British Army in Egypt 1801: An Underrated Army Comes of Age

          "Leading the charge were the 3e and 14e Dragons under General de Brigade Boussart, who galloped through the 42nd at the redoubt and reached as far as the British tents, Some of the horsemen where then brought down because they stumbled into the dips the 28th had dug as sleep holes. Others became entangled in the tent ropes. There was a suspicion amongst the British that they were under the influence of strong liquor because they fell from their saddles as they wielded their sabres. Behind them came the 15e, 18e and 2e Dragons, led by Roize.

          The Minorca Regiment had already come to the support of the 42nd, which had been ordered by Colonel Brent Spencer to wheel about to the left so that they flanked the cavalry. This enabled them to recover and attack with great spirit as the French cavalry sounded the retreat.

          The 28th famously opened ranks to let the cavalry gallop through, then turned about and discharged such volleys as brought down large numbers of men and horses. Roize died at this point and the cavalry retreated in disorder.

          It was during this stage of the battle that Anton Lutz, a private in the Minorca regiment, seized the standard of the 21e Legere, which boasted of the units victories in Italy. This standard had first been taken by Sergeant Sinclair of the 42nd, but had been lost during the cavalry charges. Later, Lutz received 20 dollars and a certificate from the adjutant general and might have expected promotion, but his illiteracy made it impossible. Sinclair was eventually rewarded with a commission."



          Paul
          Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 20 Mar 19, 06:21.
          ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
          All human ills he can subdue,
          Or with a bauble or medal
          Can win mans heart for you;
          And many a blessing know to stew
          To make a megloamaniac bright;
          Give honour to the dainty Corse,
          The Pixie is a little shite.

          Comment


          • #35
            Has it been considered that the high casualties in the PAO came from the US putting to many men ashore in such confined areas that the Japanese couldn't miss hitting someone?
            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Von Richter View Post
              Slightly off the topic, but we did once have proper handbagging session here, over the atrocities after both the Peninsula stormings!
              I'm reading a nice little book about Queen Victoria and the building of Empire. It's stated that at frequent storming of various bastions by British/Sepoy soldiers widespread naughtiness in the aftermath was conspicuous by it's absence.
              In finest tradition His Grace the Duke of Wellington is reputed to have put this down solely to the absence of booze in Muslim countries!


              The victorious troops massacred about 4,000 Spanish civilians.
              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

              Comment


              • #37
                British discipline tended to break down after a particularly difficult operation or from failure. Ciudad Rodrigo, Badajoz, and San Sebastien were all sacked quite thoroughly, and in the retreat to Corunna in 1809 and from Burgos in 1812 discipline was a problem. The same thing happened in the retreat from Plattsburg in 1814.

                The British terror bombed Copenhagen in 1807 burning down a significant portion of the city and it was deliberate and had been recommended as a viable course of action by Sir George Murray who later would become Wellington's trusted de facto chief of staff. The British excesses in the Chesapeake in 1813-1814 are also noteworthy.

                Contrary to 'popular' opinion, British troops were as prone to loot, pillage, and rape as any other troops of the period.
                We are not now that strength which in old days
                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Brechtel:

                  British discipline tended to break down after a particularly difficult operation or from failure. Ciudad Rodrigo, Badajoz, and San Sebastien were all sacked quite thoroughly, and in the retreat to Corunna in 1809 and from Burgos in 1812 discipline was a problem. The same thing happened in the retreat from Plattsburg in 1814.
                  Contrary to the 'largely' myth put out yet again by the same poster above, It has been shown that none of those armies broke and discipline problems were with certain, documented units.

                  The British terror bombed Copenhagen in 1807 burning down a significant portion of the city and it was deliberate and had been recommended as a viable course of action by Sir George Murray who later would become Wellington's trusted de facto chief of staff. The British excesses in the Chesapeake in 1813-1814 are also noteworthy.
                  Again! the poster tries to paint with a brush, areas that aren't numbered. Especially the number of civilians who were supposedly killed (the poster quoted some time ago and on other occasions on other sites, that 2,000 civilians were killed).

                  The Excesses (As with the war against Napoleon) in the war of 1812 pale in comparison to those the British were opposing.

                  Contrary to 'popular' opinion, British troops were as prone to loot, pillage, and rape as any other troops of the period]
                  Pray what and who's "contrary to 'popular' belief''?

                  At least when caught, British troops were rewarded with punishments from corporal to death and cashiering. With the French at least, it was the norm to loot pillage, slaughter rape and extort from defeated countries and usurp the heads of state with family and inlaws. From private to Emperor, it was a right of passage.

                  "Noted examples of British atrocities can be numbered on the fingers of one's hands. Noted examples of atrocities committed by the French, can be numbered on the hands of one's regiment."

                  Paul
                  Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 24 Mar 19, 06:49.
                  ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                  All human ills he can subdue,
                  Or with a bauble or medal
                  Can win mans heart for you;
                  And many a blessing know to stew
                  To make a megloamaniac bright;
                  Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                  The Pixie is a little shite.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Here we go again, only surprise is it's taken 38 posts to kick off!
                    My rather KISS principle take on things is...
                    if the British Army had behaved as vile as the French did in enemy territory, wouldn't His Grace have had a nightmare, invading France twice?

                    The long toll of the brave
                    Is not lost in darkness
                    Over the fruitful earth
                    And athwart the seas
                    Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                    Unquenchable forever.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Dibble201Bty View Post

                      Carol Divall is an excellent historian in her field.

                      Here's what she says in said book:

                      Page 97 (The British Army in Action) of The British Army in Egypt 1801: An Underrated Army Comes of Age

                      "Leading the charge were the 3e and 14e Dragons under General de Brigade Boussart, who galloped through the 42nd at the redoubt and reached as far as the British tents, Some of the horsemen where then brought down because they stumbled into the dips the 28th had dug as sleep holes. Others became entangled in the tent ropes. There was a suspicion amongst the British that they were under the influence of strong liquor because they fell from their saddles as they wielded their sabres. Behind them came the 15e, 18e and 2e Dragons, led by Roize.

                      The Minorca Regiment had already come to the support of the 42nd, which had been ordered by Colonel Brent Spencer to wheel about to the left so that they flanked the cavalry. This enabled them to recover and attack with great spirit as the French cavalry sounded the retreat.

                      The 28th famously opened ranks to let the cavalry gallop through, then turned about and discharged such volleys as brought down large numbers of men and horses. Roize died at this point and the cavalry retreated in disorder.

                      It was during this stage of the battle that Anton Lutz, a private in the Minorca regiment, seized the standard of the 21e Legere, which boasted of the units victories in Italy. This standard had first been taken by Sergeant Sinclair of the 42nd, but had been lost during the cavalry charges. Later, Lutz received 20 dollars and a certificate from the adjutant general and might have expected promotion, but his illiteracy made it impossible. Sinclair was eventually rewarded with a commission."



                      Paul
                      Thanks Paul for that glimpse of Carole Divale's ' Egypt' book.

                      I have to say I am disappointed to see her study of the geography of the battle of Alexandria does not match the customary understanding. I am fairly sure (Mackesy not to hand) that the 42nd were in front of the main position when they were caught out of formation by the French dragoons and I am certain that the 28th were manning a redoubt when the rear rank were ordered to turn about and fire out of the open, rear face of the position, so there was no 'galloping through ' that regiment (as there had been of the 42nd who had not maintained formation in pursuing French infantry; a fact of which some men of the 28th were subsequently quite disdainful).

                      Comment

                      Latest Topics

                      Collapse

                      Working...
                      X