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  • I got my first Historex catalogue in 'I think' 1976, and I well remember that there was a quote that said to the effect that the study of British dress of the Napoleonic era was difficult as there was scant detailed information. That assumption stuck with me and though years have past and many great Uniformologists have and still find new evidence, there's still big holes that need filling and that assumption still holds true. whether they will dig the dirt to eventually fill them is anybody's guess.

    Perhaps the Helmet with 'balled leather and slashed metal banded peak may well have been a dress helmet.

    Paul
    Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 05 Jan 14, 21:38.
    ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
    All human ills he can subdue,
    Or with a bauble or medal
    Can win mans heart for you;
    And many a blessing know to stew
    To make a megloamaniac bright;
    Give honour to the dainty Corse,
    The Pixie is a little shite.

    Comment


    • Dear Future Reader of this Thread:
      Dibble has an excellent memory. I just checked a beat-up version of the old Historex catalogue, which says that "the British army is one of the worst documented in the world", and though there have been a number of excellent books on the British Army in the Napoleonic wars in the last thirty years, this thread, that you may have found on Google, gives, perhaps, the best coverage of the uniforms of the Royal Horse Guards Blue currently available.
      Alas, if you are reading this far enough in the future, you may find that some of the lovely pix have disappeared. This my help you recover them.
      The original, Keeble print is from Tradition #6 (the defunct British magazine). not available on the internet as I write, but by the time that you read this, Tradition of London may have republished it; they have have already started the process.
      All of the named pix like Tyrwhitt Blake and Clayton can be found on Google
      Check out the Household Cavalry Museum and NAM (National Army Museum) on line or, much better, in person.
      The best work on this uniform is John Mollo's Waterloo Uniforms
      The best military history is Horse Guards by Barney White-Spunner. I ordered this several weeks ago, but it is still swimming
      the Atlantic.
      If you are not already a member of Armchair General, the best forum on the internet, join now!
      That should give you a good start. Good luck.
      BTW Who won the FL Cup Final in your year? As of now, Arsenal hasn't won in 20 years
      Cheers,
      Phil
      They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
      Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
      At the going down of the sun and in the morning
      We will remember them.

      Rest easy.

      Comment


      • Here is a few more pics...

        1815 site - could be a bit iffy there not the most
        reliable so I have been told.





        Cranston -


        Comment


        • Originally posted by PhilinYuma View Post
          Dear Future Reader of this Thread:
          Dibble has an excellent memory. I just checked a beat-up version of the old Historex catalogue, which says that "the British army is one of the worst documented in the world", and though there have been a number of excellent books on the British Army in the Napoleonic wars in the last thirty years, this thread, that you may have found on Google, gives, perhaps, the best coverage of the uniforms of the Royal Horse Guards Blue currently available.
          Alas, if you are reading this far enough in the future, you may find that some of the lovely pix have disappeared. This my help you recover them.
          The original, Keeble print is from Tradition #6 (the defunct British magazine). not available on the internet as I write, but by the time that you read this, Tradition of London may have republished it; they have have already started the process.
          All of the named pix like Tyrwhitt Blake and Clayton can be found on Google
          Check out the Household Cavalry Museum and NAM (National Army Museum) on line or, much better, in person.
          The best work on this uniform is John Mollo's Waterloo Uniforms
          The best military history is Horse Guards by Barney White-Spunner. I ordered this several weeks ago, but it is still swimming
          the Atlantic.
          If you are not already a member of Armchair General, the best forum on the internet, join now!
          That should give you a good start. Good luck.
          BTW Who won the FL Cup Final in your year? As of now, Arsenal hasn't won in 20 years
          Cheers,
          Phil
          I found on this site
          http://www.militaryheritage.com/swords2.htm
          few images of 1814 Pattern Guard Cavalry sword
          Is this replica correct? (I am a barbarian in uniformology).
          http://www.militaryheritage.com/imag...0sword%204.JPG
          http://www.militaryheritage.com/imag...0sword%203.JPG



          I know the main weapon of Heavy cavalry was Pattern 1796, Heavy Cavalry sword (such as Captain Tyrwhitt Drake used)...

          Btw, of the Art prints I like best of all the picture of Cristopher Clark of the RHG at Waterloo. This picture should be well known on this forum.

          Sincerely,
          Paul
          Last edited by comte Ouvarov; 06 Jan 14, 18:07.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by PhilinYuma View Post
            Dear Future Reader of this Thread:
            Dibble has an excellent memory. I just checked a beat-up version of the old Historex catalogue, which says that "the British army is one of the worst documented in the world", and though there have been a number of excellent books on the British Army in the Napoleonic wars in the last thirty years, this thread, that you may have found on Google, gives, perhaps, the best coverage of the uniforms of the Royal Horse Guards Blue currently available.
            Alas, if you are reading this far enough in the future, you may find that some of the lovely pix have disappeared. This my help you recover them.
            The original, Keeble print is from Tradition #6 (the defunct British magazine). not available on the internet as I write, but by the time that you read this, Tradition of London may have republished it; they have have already started the process.
            All of the named pix like Tyrwhitt Blake and Clayton can be found on Google
            Check out the Household Cavalry Museum and NAM (National Army Museum) on line or, much better, in person.
            The best work on this uniform is John Mollo's Waterloo Uniforms
            The best military history is Horse Guards by Barney White-Spunner. I ordered this several weeks ago, but it is still swimming
            the Atlantic.
            If you are not already a member of Armchair General, the best forum on the internet, join now!
            That should give you a good start. Good luck.
            BTW Who won the FL Cup Final in your year? As of now, Arsenal hasn't won in 20 years
            Cheers,
            Phil
            So you are waiting for Barney White-Spunner's (Lieutenant General Sir Barnabas William Benjamin White-Spunner KCB CBE. to be precise) book are you? Well I have had it since it first came out and I can assure you that it is an excellent tome. ( ) Six hundred and odd pages to keep you happy. You may even find one or two images I posted earlier, in the book How much are you paying for it, if you don't mind me asking?

            Paul
            Last edited by Dibble201Bty; 07 Jan 14, 17:31.
            ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
            All human ills he can subdue,
            Or with a bauble or medal
            Can win mans heart for you;
            And many a blessing know to stew
            To make a megloamaniac bright;
            Give honour to the dainty Corse,
            The Pixie is a little shite.

            Comment


            • I have a close-up version of the original uniform that I posted, here.



              I had to get rid of a few awkward flash blooms from it but all in all it's a good photo.

              And here is a contemporary 'altered' full dress Sabretache.



              Some other helmets that may be of interest:

              4th Dragoons 1815:


              7th Dragoons 1812:


              Ist Life Guards:


              From: http://www.britishempire.co.uk/index.php

              Paul
              ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
              All human ills he can subdue,
              Or with a bauble or medal
              Can win mans heart for you;
              And many a blessing know to stew
              To make a megloamaniac bright;
              Give honour to the dainty Corse,
              The Pixie is a little shite.

              Comment


              • To have a break in the proceedings, here is a nice portrait of Sir Hussey Vivian

                Murat's English double



                Paul
                ‘Tis said his form is tiny, yet
                All human ills he can subdue,
                Or with a bauble or medal
                Can win mans heart for you;
                And many a blessing know to stew
                To make a megloamaniac bright;
                Give honour to the dainty Corse,
                The Pixie is a little shite.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by PhilinYuma View Post
                  I ordered this several weeks ago, but it is still swimming
                  the Atlantic.

                  Phil
                  dont worry ... I still get the "first wave" of the ordered books and I should say the arrival rate of books is different for different countries ... From the America the books arriving unbearably long time... But from the UK I've got the book of Buchanan's letters in 8 days.
                  Sincerely,
                  Paul
                  Last edited by comte Ouvarov; 07 Jan 14, 08:34.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Dibble201Bty View Post
                    To have a break in the proceedings, here is a nice portrait of Sir Hussey Vivian

                    Murat's English double

                    Paul
                    Magnificent was the uniform of Lieutenant-General Stapleton Cotton!


                    image-reconstruction

                    Sincerely,
                    Paul
                    Last edited by comte Ouvarov; 07 Jan 14, 08:04.

                    Comment


                    • Had a thought about the discrepancy with helmet design , I do remember reading some where but cant remember exactly in what book ,that the helmets worn at waterloo were found to be wanting and to weak a design with crests becoming detached during fighting so maybe the second design is an improvement on the first this would explain why most paintings and prints depicting the battle show the brass peak leather type as in Captain William Tyrwhitt Drakes portrait in frock collet and obviously on campaign were as William Robert Clayton's portrait shows him post waterloo complete with medal and carrying the second pattern helmet which looks much stronger
                      just a theory ???

                      any way PhilinYuma you will enjoy your book "Horse Guards" by Barny its a well researched volume though I am still working my way through my copy and he has always been a bit of an authority on regimental history as I remember him back in the 80s when I had the pleasure of serving with him when he was a Maj and my SQN Leader ,shame I don't have his phone number I bet he could answer all these question for us in a stroke LOL

                      Comment


                      • Thanks Tommy,were you in the RHG, then? One of my brothers was in the regiment in the fifties and rose to the rank of full trooper.
                        @Dibble: I have held off buying this book for several years because I was doing infantry and light cavalry of the period, and it cost (still costs) about $60 over here, used. but I started checking seriously recently and found a used copy in England for $20 (14 quid) including postage. It is coming by dolphin post, and with the bad weather over the Atlantic, it might take a while
                        BTW, for non-Brit members, "Horse Guards" doesn't stand for the regiment, but for the building next to Whitehall in London, which was Wellington's HQ as Chief of Staff and is now the home of the Household Cavalry, the combined Life Guards and Royal Horse Guards regiments, so the book deals with all of them.
                        Cheers,
                        Phil
                        Cheers, Phil
                        They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
                        Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
                        At the going down of the sun and in the morning
                        We will remember them.

                        Rest easy.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by PhilinYuma View Post
                          the combined Life Guards and Royal Horse Guards regiments, so the book deals with all of them.
                          Cheers,
                          Phil
                          Cheers, Phil
                          The Royal Dragoons are mentioned there also (there given the part of the Smithies' account). Concerning the later Campaigns of 19th century there mentioned not only Household regiments also.
                          Sincerely,
                          Paul
                          Last edited by comte Ouvarov; 08 Jan 14, 23:17.

                          Comment


                          • Well sort of Phill I was in the Blues and Royals (Prince Harrys Regiment )
                            the amalgamation of RHG with The 1st Dragoons RHG/D as its known now so that's why the book covers the history of the Royals too , its a cracking volume and probably the best history of the regiments from formation to now on the market ,though the two volumes of 1st HCR and 2nd HCR covering WW2 are also very very good but not this period shall we say ,I remember having a look round the museum at Windsor once before a regimental dinner on an open day for us and was out the back with one of the staff looking at all the books they have and they still have two very large volumes leather bound that are the regimental ledgers for the 1st Life Guards and 2nd all hand written buy the second in commands of said regiments with all the names and ranks off the men who served at Waterloo with casualties and wounded and much more info all hand written I remember the thrill of turning the pages and seeing the neat hand written record and to think it was written at the time and just after the battle regrettably the RHG one did not survive ,amazing to touch real history

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by tommy cooper View Post
                              Well sort of Phill I was in the Blues and Royals (Prince Harrys Regiment )
                              the amalgamation of RHG with The 1st Dragoons RHG/D as its known now so that's why the book covers the history of the Royals too , its a cracking volume and probably the best history of the regiments from formation to now on the market ,though the two volumes of 1st HCR and 2nd HCR covering WW2 are also very very good but not this period shall we say ,I remember having a look round the museum at Windsor once before a regimental dinner on an open day for us and was out the back with one of the staff looking at all the books they have and they still have two very large volumes leather bound that are the regimental ledgers for the 1st Life Guards and 2nd all hand written buy the second in commands of said regiments with all the names and ranks off the men who served at Waterloo with casualties and wounded and much more info all hand written I remember the thrill of turning the pages and seeing the neat hand written record and to think it was written at the time and just after the battle regrettably the RHG one did not survive ,amazing to touch real history
                              Btw, do You know the real number of killed and missing in the Thoyt's Troop of the RHG at the battle of Waterloo?
                              I think, it could be interesting for You
                              http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=239782.0
                              I'm sure, twenty is exaggeration.
                              Sincerely,
                              Paul
                              Last edited by comte Ouvarov; 10 Jan 14, 19:17.

                              Comment


                              • Thanks Paul for the link ,its difficult to remember but I am sure that when looking at the Life Guard diaries I was surprised how few actually fell at the battle when you think warfare was so brutal in those days you would expect more ? I know the 1st and 2nd LGs lost both respective Colonels and very nearly the Blues too but for the prompt action of Trooper Tom Evans who saved his life and was rewarded after by Col Hill with enough money to by a pub
                                here's the story

                                http://www.the-oxford-blue.com/

                                Also came across this in the royal collection

                                http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/co...rse-guards-the

                                1816 complete with Waterloo medal and wearing the second pattern of helmet with the brass edged more downward pointing peak looks like the one worn at waterloo was withdrawn and a new type was issued

                                Comment

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