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IED Shockwaves Inject Hidden Damage in Troops, Study Claims

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Bluenose View Post
    What a total load of excrement. Most of them are wired artillery rounds or similar. Even the shaped charge are small in % terms.



    You mean, the same aspect of explosive rounds for the last 300 years? Wow, that is new!
    No...foreign matter injected into the wound..not neuro blast damage. Kind of a to-for-one punch.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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    • #17
      No...foreign matter injected into the wound..not neuro blast damage. Kind of a to-for-one punch.
      Yes, that is the point. Bacterial infection from wounds is common, but not particularly (or even likely) from IEDs beyond the wider environment.
      History is not tragedy; to understand historical reality, it is sometimes better to not know the end of the story.

      Pierre Vidal-Naquet

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Bluenose View Post
        Yes, that is the point. Bacterial infection from wounds is common, but not particularly (or even likely) from IEDs beyond the wider environment.
        The chance of infection was probably as high if not higher from shells exploding in the mud and rotting corpses (animal and human) of Flanders in WW1. And there were no antibiotics then.

        The first record of a death by blast from an explosive weapon comes from the Battle of the Nile when a British sailor was killed by a French shell fired from a warship which left no obvious physical trauma. There may well have been earlier instances but not recorded.
        Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
        Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by MarkV View Post
          ...

          The first record of a death by blast from an explosive weapon comes from the Battle of the Nile when a British sailor was killed by a French shell fired from a warship which left no obvious physical trauma. There may well have been earlier instances but not recorded.
          I'm thinking gunners who had their piece explode. Not a rare event back in the early artillery days. Protect us St Barbara.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
            I'm thinking gunners who had their piece explode. Not a rare event back in the early artillery days. Protect us St Barbara.
            But probably not killed by the shockwave of the blast but by pieces of flying metal. Most of the early guns that exploded were built op guns consisting of a tube constructed by hammer welding iron bars around former, over which red hot iron rings were shrink fitted and closed with an iron plug - lots of bits to fly around if it burst. The early gunners often fired their pieces remotely by a powder train
            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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            • #21
              Lots of possibilities there. Fragment wound don't negate overpressure concussion, or a head blow by a fragment. Often wondered how well those helmets protected soldiers from clubbing. A lot of them look like they are for show & not much for protection.

              This reminds me of Gen Hookers head blow from a wood fragment. A life time of severe headaches and bouts of cognitive malfunction after that.

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              • #22
                The first record of a death by blast from an explosive weapon comes from the Battle of the Nile when a British sailor was killed by a French shell fired from a warship which left no obvious physical trauma. There may well have been earlier instances but not recorded.
                Possibly early explosive charges fired by some from of late-Medieval / early-Modern catapult?
                History is not tragedy; to understand historical reality, it is sometimes better to not know the end of the story.

                Pierre Vidal-Naquet

                Comment


                • #23
                  The point about the sailor at the Nile was that he had no obvious injuries (apart from being dead) which is why the incident was noted. If some one was hit by fragments then , given the state of medical knowledge in the middle ages and until about the 18th century, that would be assumed to be the cause of death. Don't forget the church specifically prohibited autopsies at the time. People probably did die from blast as I said but it just wasn't noted.
                  Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                  Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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                  • #24
                    I'm not an expert but I should imagine the supersonic shock wave from an explosion doesn't go around the human body, it goes through it without leaving an external mark, so internal organs and the brain could get seriously rattled..

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                    • #25
                      I'm not an expert but I should imagine the supersonic shock wave from an explosion doesn't go around the human body, it goes through it without leaving an external mark, so internal organs and the brain could get seriously rattled.
                      I would be expect most to be sub-sonic, but yes that is the point. What I misunderstood about Mark V's point was the clear identification of the injury cause.
                      History is not tragedy; to understand historical reality, it is sometimes better to not know the end of the story.

                      Pierre Vidal-Naquet

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        It isn't any different; the IED is often made from the ammunition you have mentioned below.

                        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
                        How is the concussion of an IED different from that produced by impacting artillery, mortar, or rocket rounds?

                        Especially since some IEDs are made from artillery, mortar, or rocket rounds?
                        My worst jump story:
                        My 13th jump was on the 13th day of the month, aircraft number 013.
                        As recorded on my DA Form 1307 Individual Jump Log.
                        No lie.

                        ~
                        "Everything looks all right. Have a good jump, eh."
                        -2 Commando Jumpmaster

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
                          I'm not an expert but I should imagine the supersonic shock wave from an explosion doesn't go around the human body, it goes through it without leaving an external mark, so internal organs and the brain could get seriously rattled..
                          They get liquified...
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            They get liquified...
                            But not without leaving some external mark
                            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Incidentally 9 Russian hikers in the Urals vanished in winter 1959 and when their bodies were found they had internal organ damage and other injuries, and one of the many theories is that they strayed into an army weapon testing range and were hit by shock waves from weapon tests.
                              (google 'Dyatlov Pass Mystery', the incident is all over the net and youtube)

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