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At least 456 killed by overdose of pain killers at NHS hospital

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  • At least 456 killed by overdose of pain killers at NHS hospital

    Seems like the NHS in Gosport has been euthanasising anyone old, regardless of prognosis, who used a rehab hospital.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...gland-44547788
    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

  • #2
    What has this got to do with Modern wars and warfare? Can it be moved to where it belongs?
    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
    Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by MarkV View Post
      What has this got to do with Modern wars and warfare? Can it be moved to where it belongs?
      I think he thinks he's in the other Europe subforum.

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      • #4
        As best I can tell my 97 year old mother was ​​​​​euthanized in an expensive extended care facility. The process was to administer morphine until she stopped breathing.

        Obviously it would have been more profitable to keep her alive so that motive can be ruled out. Her lungs had been badly damaged by years of asthma treatment and recurring severe pneumonia. She had been on oxygen for 6 months which also is not good for your lungs. My conclusion is that the doctor was unwilling to violate the living will conditions that prohibited "extended life support" and was also unwilling to see someone die slowly suffocating.

        ​​​​​​​The problem is this cannot be reduced to rational decisions. How much you suffer when in pain is partly dependent on temperament. There isn't a formula you can apply that will tell you who to help die and who to let suffer. All I can say is that I have sympathy for the doctors that have to make these decisions and at the same time concern about the slippery slope towards attitudes that do not respect life.
        ​​​​​​
        We hunt the hunters

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        • #5
          Man I'm caring for my folks who're suffering from Alzheimer's. It's the toughest thing I've ever faced. There's zero hope of any recovery and each day holds the promise of more and deeper insanity. So if I'm intolerant of liberals take that into account...

          I got enough of real insanity in my life to put up with to trolls.
          Credo quia absurdum.


          Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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          • #6

            Some people should be losing their jobs and get prosecuted. If they were operating under bureaucratic orders, arrest the bureaucrats.

            Pruitt
            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

            by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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            • #7
              My 98 year old mother passed away May 24. She was in her own place (assisted living) until her last night. She's been sleeping a lot and not eating much. I got a call at 815pm saying she was short of breath and EMS was taking her to the local ER (special geriatric one). They gave her some morphine and a sedative to calm her excessively high heartrate and she fell asleep around midnight. She passed away at 215pm the following afternoon without regaining consciousness. I don't know if the morphine helped her along but everything was for the best. It was the happiest wake that I've ever been to. To live to 98, still have your memory and mind, and to spend all but your last night in your own bed. It doesn't get any better than that!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by johns624 View Post

                I think he thinks he's in the other Europe subforum.
                Could I mod move this to the current events Europe forum please.

                "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                  My 98 year old mother passed away May 24. She was in her own place (assisted living) until her last night. She's been sleeping a lot and not eating much. I got a call at 815pm saying she was short of breath and EMS was taking her to the local ER (special geriatric one). They gave her some morphine and a sedative to calm her excessively high heartrate and she fell asleep around midnight. She passed away at 215pm the following afternoon without regaining consciousness. I don't know if the morphine helped her along but everything was for the best. It was the happiest wake that I've ever been to. To live to 98, still have your memory and mind, and to spend all but your last night in your own bed. It doesn't get any better than that!
                  Many of the victims in this case were in their 60s and had been expected to be discharged back to their homes before being subjected to Dr Batrtonís tender mercies.
                  Patients were often given a lethal does soon after arriving at the rehab facility. These were patients who had been joking with their relatives the day before, who had been expected to be discharged.
                  Last edited by Surrey; 20 Jun 18, 22:31.
                  "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                  • #10
                    Wow, awesome. The NHS, the finest creation in the history of mankind, has managed to produce two of the most prolific serial killers of modern times.

                    I wonder who 'scored' more Harold Shipman or Jane Barton

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                      My 98 year old mother passed away May 24. She was in her own place (assisted living) until her last night. She's been sleeping a lot and not eating much. I got a call at 815pm saying she was short of breath and EMS was taking her to the local ER (special geriatric one). They gave her some morphine and a sedative to calm her excessively high heartrate and she fell asleep around midnight. She passed away at 215pm the following afternoon without regaining consciousness. I don't know if the morphine helped her along but everything was for the best. It was the happiest wake that I've ever been to. To live to 98, still have your memory and mind, and to spend all but your last night in your own bed. It doesn't get any better than that!
                      Why the morphine? That's for severe pain, and it depresses respirations. If someone is having shortness of breath, it causes anxiety and raises the heart rate, for which oxygen is the treatment of choice. And sedatives for a 98 y/o female in respiratory distress?
                      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                      • #12
                        My story was off topic as it involves events in the U.S. and someone with limited time to live. I would suggest however that the administration of morphine or similar drugs to ease people into death is the first step towards what may be murder in the original post. We will have to see where the NHS investigation leads.

                        One of the reasons Americans are obsessed with the voluntary exchange of goods and services is that centralized control has been shown to invariably be dehumanizing. The central tenet of Western Civilization is the divinity of the individual, individual choice and responsibility. In the quest for equality as measured by group identity socialism unavoidably weakens core values. You can see the same pattern of dehumanization in socialist German under the Nazis, the Soviet Union and Mao's China. Being able to take responsibility for your health care, choose your doctor and insurance are critical to the dignity of the individual. I would suggest that it is the Marxist influence on socialist ideology that has made these issues so hard to address.

                        Universal health care is a necessary step in human social evolution but how you get there matters.
                        We hunt the hunters

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                          My story was off topic as it involves events in the U.S. and someone with limited time to live. I would suggest however that the administration of morphine or similar drugs to ease people into death is the first step towards what may be murder in the original post. We will have to see where the NHS investigation leads.

                          One of the reasons Americans are obsessed with the voluntary exchange of goods and services is that centralized control has been shown to invariably be dehumanizing. The central tenet of Western Civilization is the divinity of the individual, individual choice and responsibility. In the quest for equality as measured by group identity socialism unavoidably weakens core values. You can see the same pattern of dehumanization in socialist German under the Nazis, the Soviet Union and Mao's China. Being able to take responsibility for your health care, choose your doctor and insurance are critical to the dignity of the individual. I would suggest that it is the Marxist influence on socialist ideology that has made these issues so hard to address.

                          Universal health care is a necessary step in human social evolution but how you get there matters.
                          Your argument is confusing. You are mixing fair trade with the question of euthanasia and social core values. Those are radically different subjects.
                          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                            Your argument is confusing. You are mixing fair trade with the question of euthanasia and social core values. Those are radically different subjects.
                            Social core values must be voluntarily acted out because enforcement is practically impossible. Criminal justice can only deal with a small number of truly deviant individuals. If a large enough number of people act outside of the core values social order dissolves. Fair trade is just one aspect of voluntary exchange.

                            ​​​​​Bureaucracies must deal with people not as individuals but as statistical representations. It isn't just a matter of scale although that is a factor. Besides scale bureaucracies must contend with equity and diversity simultaneously without individual details leading to suboptimal efficiency and service.

                            I'm not suggesting that the NHS has in general not done a good job considering the magnitude of the mandate. I'm only suggesting that voluntary health services are less dehumanizing because the emphasis is more on the individual not the statistical representations of individuals. Currently private insurance ends up with similar issues because people get insurance not as a personal selection but as members of groups which functional as impersonal as public health care.

                            Health care is going to be rationed because resources are finite. One way to ration health care is to limit care to the elders who have chronic disease that is difficult to address without creating complications or will only preserve life for a limited time. Limiting care even if rational could lead to a psychological atmosphere in which health care workers go the next step and adopt active eugenics. Those kind of attitudes may be more limited in a voluntary environment.

                            Eugenics are not the brain child of the right who traditionally were religious but of the left.


                            https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...st-closet-left
                            We hunt the hunters

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                            • #15
                              To be fair private health care has always been supplemented by charity and local taxes. Historically the conditions were often appalling, especially at mental institutions. Singling out public systems for criticism could be misleading. Rationing according to ability to pay violates our fundamental value of equal opportunity. A functional meritocracy is undermined by random illnesses that the individual had no control over.
                              We hunt the hunters

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