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The Warsaw Pact was not really a threat after all

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  • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

    Non-Russian sources are of small interest. Nobody but the Russians know what happened and how. Using those not familiar with Russian archives and other sources is a waste of time. As simple as that.
    People like you are the primary reason that this forum is dying...

    Well done Tovarich!
    48 trips 'round the sun on this sh*tball we call home...and still learning...
    __________________________________________________ __________________

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    • Originally posted by iron View Post

      People like you are the primary reason that this forum is dying...

      Well done Tovarich!
      Whay?

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      • Originally posted by Michele View Post

        So you can quote them, one supposes?
        Ofcours mate.

        Warious books on armed forces (i prefere native authors)

        www.soldat.ru

        Russian Arms Forum

        Military Forum

        http://forum.boinaslava.net/forum.ph...98ceddd0b03fd6

        http://www.paluba.info/smf/index.php

        http://www.serwis-militarny.net/forum/

        https://www.valka.cz/topic/view/1234...rany-1950-1990

        http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index....opic=530&st=30

        https://www.ww2.dk/new/newindex.htm

        http://www.easternorbat.com/

        http://armee-francaise-1989.wifeo.com/

        https://www.orbat85.nl/

        http://xoomer.virgilio.it/ramius//Mi...3_AL_1996.html

        https://history.army.mil/html/forces....htm#Divisions

        https://www.naval-encyclopedia.com/cold-war-warships


        This is for now but there are more, other sources i have to finde in my database. As you can see i prefere domestic sources for every country becouse that is most reliable sources.
        Last edited by Perun; 13 Feb 20, 16:51.

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        • From a military POV, the WP was stronger, especially after 1957.
          But the whole question, on which no one here has been able to give a serious answer,is : why would the WP attack Western Europe ?
          After 1953 the Kremlin was in the proverbial shXXt. It no longer had the means to dominate its satellites ,thus what would be the bennefit too attack and occupy 200 million more opponents of communism .
          They had already big problems in 1948, when Tito said go to hell and seceded with impunity .
          Whatever Stalin was doing ( eliminating all potential new Titos) ,Titoism was infecting the whole communist world .

          Comment


          • Originally posted by iron View Post

            People like you are the primary reason that this forum is dying...

            Well done Tovarich!
            Me ? Certainly not. I'm nor arrogant, nor celf-absorbed, nor incapable of learning.
            There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

            Comment


            • Originally posted by johns624 View Post
              Here's a question... If we had not treated the WP as a threat, would it have been one? In other words, if NATO hadn't kept up a strong military force, would the Warsaw Pact have seen an opening and decided that invading Western Europe was worth the risks?
              You mean would the Soviet Union have launched a first strike. The Warsaw Pact was completely controlled by the Soviet Union and could do nothing on their own that might endanger the SU.
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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              • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                From a military POV, the WP was stronger, especially after 1957.
                But the whole question, on which no one here has been able to give a serious answer,is : why would the WP attack Western Europe ?
                After 1953 the Kremlin was in the proverbial shXXt. It no longer had the means to dominate its satellites ,thus what would be the bennefit too attack and occupy 200 million more opponents of communism .
                They had already big problems in 1948, when Tito said go to hell and seceded with impunity .
                Whatever Stalin was doing ( eliminating all potential new Titos) ,Titoism was infecting the whole communist world .
                During the 70's, the entire Soviet Union-Warsaw Pact outnumbered NATO forces on the ground by 15:1, according to our own intel...and we weren't in any shape to fight them off.
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                  During the 70's, the entire Soviet Union-Warsaw Pact outnumbered NATO forces on the ground by 15:1, according to our own intel...and we weren't in any shape to fight them off.
                  Yes, they were stronger and could win a conventional war . But they did not start such a war .Because, winning such a war would not help them . It would only accelerate their downfall .

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                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                    During the 70's, the entire Soviet Union-Warsaw Pact outnumbered NATO forces on the ground by 15:1, according to our own intel...and we weren't in any shape to fight them off.
                    Nonsense. It wasn't even 2 to 1.
                    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                      Yes, they were stronger and could win a conventional war . But they did not start such a war .Because, winning such a war would not help them . It would only accelerate their downfall .
                      It would have, had it been up to them, but they were controlled by the Soviet Union upon which they were dependent, and the Soviet Union believed that they could win a first strike...and they could have in Europe.

                      Had the Soviet Union made the decision, the Warsaw Pct would have been sacrificed first in order to attrit the NATO forces, cause damage and casualties and use up valuable ammunition and POL before the Soviet forces took up the fight. That's what Soviet buffer nations were always intended to do. My entire Brigade had a an estimated survival time of 48-72 hours mac, before we were overrun and obliterated, under the most optimal parameters.
                      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                        Nonsense. It wasn't even 2 to 1.
                        are you sure about that if you exclude US forces not stationed in Europe.

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                        • Yes. NATO had a much more numerous population than WP.
                          There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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                          • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                            Yes. NATO had a much more numerous population than WP.
                            He said forces on the ground though.
                            Wisdom is personal

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                            • Originally posted by Karri View Post

                              He said forces on the ground though.
                              It's hard to have 15 time more forces on the ground with a population 50% smaller...
                              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                                It's hard to have 15 time more forces on the ground with a population 50% smaller...
                                It all depends on how things are organised, and what time period you are looking at (pre-mobilisation, mobilisation, post-mobilisation). The whole of the US army wasn't stationed in Europe. Then there is the matter of professional armies versus conscript armies. For example Finnish army when mobilised is larger than the German army, despite Germany having a population 15 times larger.

                                It's hard therefore means that you need to simply spend more resources on it. Which the SU did.
                                Wisdom is personal

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