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The Warsaw Pact was not really a threat after all

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  • #46
    Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post

    Agree. I was in USAREUR from 1972 to 1975. Inter-theater transfer from Vietnam to Germany. It was post-Vietnam downsizing. We went through 3-4 reduction-in-forces(RIF) in the officer corps.* The fifth RIF even eliminated regular army officers. There was a continuous retooling to get the straight (leg) infantry trained back into mechanized infantry and conventional warfare. Additionally thelate 70's into the 80's was a major doctrinal changes were made to compensate for a neglected European mission that was also used as a rotational base for troops in and out of Vietnam on one year tours. [The same retooling is necessary with today's Army after Iraq and Afghanistan.] We went through doctrinal changes in Active Defense, AirLand Battle which evolved into an over-the horizon strike concept which would begin to attrite the 5th Guards Tank Army out of Belorussian as it crossed Poland and East Germany in order that it arrived at about a 50-40% strength.

    *The Army as a whole went from 1.2 million strength to somewhere about 730,000. When I left the Army in 1995, it was 525,000 and going south. {Participated in a working conference with the Chief of Staff on how to structure the army and its priorities as it dwindled.}
    And I was with 2/28-8th ID from early '75 to end of '79, and they still hadn't figured it out.

    I retired in fall of '81, and it was a confused and rudderless Army with no clear purpose any longer.
    Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

      And I was with 2/28-8th ID from early '75 to end of '79, and they still hadn't figured it out.

      I retired in fall of '81, and it was a confused and rudderless Army with no clear purpose any longer.
      You were in the army late 60's and early 70's at the bottom for comparison?

      The ship must have been turning around since they beat the Iraqis, the 7th largest army in the world, in a 100-hour ground war by 1991.
      Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post

        You were in the army late 60's and early 70's at the bottom for comparison?

        The ship must have been turning around since they beat the Iraqis, the 7th largest army in the world, in a 100-hour ground war by 1991.
        1961 - 1981

        The Iraqis had a large military by numbers, but the training and the tech did not match up, and we spent a lot of time, ordnance and money destroying their C3 before we actually committed to the attack. The only really decent first line troops were the Republican Guard.

        Also, we did not "defeat" Iraq in 100 hours - we stopped fighting. Not the same thing at all.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

          1961 - 1981

          The Iraqis had a large military by numbers, but the training and the tech did not match up, and we spent a lot of time, ordnance and money destroying their C3 before we actually committed to the attack. The only really decent first line troops were the Republican Guard.

          Also, we did not "defeat" Iraq in 100 hours - we stopped fighting. Not the same thing at all.
          Thank you for your service.

          We stopped the slaughter.
          Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post

            Thank you for your service.

            We stopped the slaughter.
            And thank you for yours.

            Unfortunately, our success was only temporary. Throughout the Middle East, the slaughter continues. Viet Nam all over again.

            Fight to win or don;t start in the first place.
            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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            • #51
              Bullcrap. The Warsaw Pact was Hitler re-incarnated, except attacking in the opposite direction. The ideological difference between German Fascism and Soviet Bolshevism was purely academic, both made mockery of the rule of law.

              The plan of the invasion of Western Europe was so aggressive even the Poles with their 2nd rate divisions were tasked with the invasion of Denmark and occupation of Copenhagen. The soldiers would not be issued radiation dosimeters. The thinking was the fallout from nuclear war would be so intense the Polish soldiers would get several times the lethal dose and would die anyway. They thought it was pointless to demoralize them by giving them the actual exposure numbers. Yet the Soviets were determined to attack anyway, with the full consequences. It was going to be mayhem and the communism political doctrine provided callous justification for killing all those millions of people, friendly and enemy.
              Last edited by MonsterZero; 09 Jul 18, 14:18.

              "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
              --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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              • #52
                As usual more BS.
                There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                  I recall seeing a map that called for the Polish Army to make an amphibious landing in Denmark and Holstein-Schleswig.

                  Pruitt
                  Some good analysis of said map here :

                  https://rucforsk.ruc.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/59080015

                  The orginal thread here :

                  https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...cold-war/page2

                  Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                  Bielorussians and Ukraiinas ? Where did you found them ?
                  Here :

                  https://www.cia.gov/library/readingr...0001197523.pdf
                  Last edited by Snowygerry; 10 Jul 18, 04:28.
                  High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
                  Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

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                  • #54
                    The number of the page ?
                    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                      For all the rhetoric about brotherly Socialist countries and for all the notion that the Soviet one was a "Union", it seems military planners knew who was who...
                      Michele

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Michele View Post

                        For all the rhetoric about brotherly Socialist countries and for all the notion that the Soviet one was a "Union", it seems military planners knew who was who...
                        Well...kind of. There was still a lot of confusion about the Soviet Union even late into the Cold War, a lot of it caused by differing intel from the Joint Chiefs as opposed to what CIA was claiming. The CIA tended to exaggerate the threat quite a bit, and often got who was allied with whom mixed up as well.
                        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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