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The Warsaw Pact was not really a threat after all

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  • Googling "numbers nato vs warsaw pact" gives you as the first link:

    https://www.nato.int/cps/fr/natohq/d...ied_138256.htm

    Everything is here. Don't understand why it's so difficult for many people here.
    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots

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    • Calculations were often wrong. For example France and Spain were not taken into calculation and often NATO southern an northern tier didnt came in calculations. For other side Soviet PVO aircraft were regulary counted for but they would not comence into battle other then air defence of Soviet Union. Same is for divisions, they counted ALL Soviet divisions as if they ALL will be used in combat in Germany. Majority of those divisions in reality were undermanned and underequiped.

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      • Originally posted by Perun View Post
        Calculations were often wrong. For example France and Spain were not taken into calculation and often NATO southern an northern tier didnt came in calculations. For other side Soviet PVO aircraft were regulary counted for but they would not comence into battle other then air defence of Soviet Union. Same is for divisions, they counted ALL Soviet divisions as if they ALL will be used in combat in Germany. Majority of those divisions in reality were undermanned and underequiped.
        A lot of NATO divisions were also undermanned and underequipped.

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        • Yes but they were atleast at 75 percent while Soviets had divisions maned with dozens of man and still they were counted with full maned divisions.

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          • Originally posted by craven View Post

            are you sure about that if you exclude US forces not stationed in Europe.
            You are absolutely correct. REFORGER was always of questionable effectiveness because:

            1. The Soviets knew where the pre-postioned equipment was stored, less than 20 minutes flying time from WP airfields. (POMCUS stocks)

            12. The Soviets trained to use chemical/biological weapons in a first strike, and

            3. There was little guarantee that the REFORGER flights would even be able to land in Germany given the enormous number of missiles and fighter aircraft possessed by the SVU/WP.

            4. And BTW, we parked all of our armor and vehicles in long straight lines in our motor pools, without any protection from air attack, perfect for a single aircraft with cluster bombs to take out a battalion of armor. Alternatively, a single VX weapon air dispersed would render all of the vehicles untouchable for many hours while someone tried to decontaminate them without adequate decon equipment in the midst of a war. During the five years I was with the Mech Inf, we NEVER practiced decontaminating our vehicles - we did not the necessary gear and equipment. We had personal MOPP suits, period, and no one can stay on them for long since bodily toilet functions increase rather than decrease during a war, and breaking the suit seals meant dying within minutes or less. You can't eat or drink in those suits, either. (we didn't have the drinking tubes available either)

            All in all, it would have been a magnificent and lethal cluster .
            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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            • Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
              Thanks for confirming you sources, at least generally.
              No problem, we should finde the truth not propaganda. That is main reason of this forum.
              sorry for late ansver

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              • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                A lot of NATO divisions were also undermanned and underequipped.
                Undermanned was the least of our problems. Our equipment was old - the better stuff was still going to Viet Nam, and not adequately maintained. (my battalion aid station command tract had not been rebuilt for over eleven years and the engine clock had been disconnected to conceal that fact)

                Additionally, our munitions were stored some twenty miles away,not where the combat vehicles were located, and America was counting on a thirty day preparation period while the Soviets were planning on a sudden and devastating first strike. Think Pearl Harbor, only much, much worse.

                In my brigade, none of the vehicles had been swim tested in a long time, hull plugs were missing and bilge pumps unservicable, so we were unable to cross any streams or rivers without a fully rated bridge that could handle the weight. Doesn't sound like much of a problem unless you are aware that the first act of the Bundeswehr would be to destroy their own bridges before the Soviets could use them, and we were based south of the Rhine.

                Even our casualty evac capabilities were totally inadequate. The military thinking at the time was that we would be fighting a second Viet Nam, which was a massive self-deception on our part.

                All in all, I was glad to leave Europe for the last time. Taking a dull knife to a gun fight is not a good idea...ever.
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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