Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

American Officers most influence on American Way of War?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • American Officers most influence on American Way of War?

    Which American Officers do you think have had the greatest influence on the American Way of War?
    54
    Washington
    5.56%
    3
    Greene
    0.00%
    0
    John Paul Jones
    1.85%
    1
    Winfield Scott
    5.56%
    3
    Zachary Taylor
    1.85%
    1
    Farragut
    3.70%
    2
    Grant
    11.11%
    6
    Lee
    1.85%
    1
    Sherman
    11.11%
    6
    Andrew Jackson
    0.00%
    0
    Stonewall Jackson
    0.00%
    0
    Dewey
    1.85%
    1
    Pershing
    7.41%
    4
    MacArthur
    0.00%
    0
    Marshall
    11.11%
    6
    Arnold
    5.56%
    3
    King
    3.70%
    2
    Eisenhower
    3.70%
    2
    Nimitz
    5.56%
    3
    Ridgeway
    0.00%
    0
    Powell
    3.70%
    2
    Boyd
    5.56%
    3
    Westmoreland
    0.00%
    0
    LeMay
    7.41%
    4
    Other
    1.85%
    1

    The poll is expired.


  • #2
    The next five I would have put on the list:

    LaFayette, Stueben, Bradley, Patton, David Jones

    Comment


    • #3
      And what about James Gavin and Hal Moore?
      ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

      BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

      BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

      Comment


      • #4
        I realized I completely forget Admiral Hyman Rickover - he should be in the top ten. He had a huge effect on the development of the US nuclear submarine force, as well as the reliance on nuclear carriers (and once escort cruisers).

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
          I realized I completely forget Admiral Hyman Rickover - he should be in the top ten. He had a huge effect on the development of the US nuclear submarine force, as well as the reliance on nuclear carriers (and once escort cruisers).
          Your missing one of the all time most important Admirals.

          It starts with an M.
          "Ask not what your country can do for you"

          Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

          you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
            And what about James Gavin and Hal Moore?
            Gavin of course was airbronne fan. We now have one AB Div that hasn't been used as AB in 50 years. So what effect did he have on the American way of war? Gen Moore, a brave man that made Flag rank.
            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
              Gavin of course was airbronne fan. We now have one AB Div that hasn't been used as AB in 50 years. So what effect did he have on the American way of war? Gen Moore, a brave man that made Flag rank.
              Well,I agree that some of Gavin's tactics are less applicable today,but the thread doesn't specify time period.
              ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

              BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

              BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

              Comment


              • #8
                Scott. He ruled the roost for several decades & devised the Anaconda strategy that defeated the Southern States, vs the 'Decisive Battle' strategy that failed repeatedly.

                Napoleon. His methods became the obsession of several generations of US Army officers.

                MacAurthur. His reforms of of the US Army officer education system while CoS in the 1930s was probablly his best service to the US. Had that not occured a large portion of the officer corps would have entered WWII far less ready for the warfare of the 1940s.

                Brigadier Fox Connor. He mentored Captain Eisenhower for several years. Leading Ike to read extensively on strategy and operational techniques. Many books on high level national politics and the politics of military leadership were asorbed by Ike as a direct result of Connors mentoring. Eisenhoweres ability to deal effectively with the British was probablly a result of this, unlike his peers like Patton, Stillwell, Fredendall, ect...

                Brigadier Boyd USAF. Created a new philsophical context for understanding warfare in general and particularly modern warfare. Inspired a massive shift in the tactical, operational, and stratigic thinking in the USMC. Not sure if the US Army heard of the guy. In the USAF Boyd deeply influenced the training of fighter pilots, tactical thinking, and was endlessly involved in the F15 & F16 development programs.

                Lt Gen Foulois. I dont think I need to say anything about him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Now? That would have to be John Boyd.

                  Not only did Boyd completely turn around American thinking on fighter design, "shock and awe" is all based on his OODA loop. I can't think of anyone else who's made such a large impact on US military thinking in the past half century.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
                    Well,I agree that some of Gavin's tactics are less applicable today,but the thread doesn't specify time period.
                    American Way of War, Gavins way is away outdated, imo
                    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DingBat View Post
                      Now? That would have to be John Boyd.

                      Not only did Boyd completely turn around American thinking on fighter design, "shock and awe" is all based on his OODA loop. I can't think of anyone else who's made such a large impact on US military thinking in the past half century.
                      Absolutely. The OODA loop did lead to shock and awe. Unfortunately, Rummy and his crew didn't understand that the OODA loop has far more than a tactical component, and had they really understood Boyd's work, the Iraq mission would never have happened in the manner it did.
                      That notwithstanding, as Carl noted, Boyd's work is central to the USMC's doctrine and he is quoted or cited in the MCDPs. While the army didn't adopt Boyd's work as completely, he was still very influential. Many will recall that the primary designer of the AirLand Battle doctrine in the 1980s was Huba Wass de Czege. This officer was highly influenced by Boyd's work. Subsequent doctrinal modifications and changes (for example the "battle space" concept) further adopt Boyd's views. As LTG Paul Funk wrote in Battle Space: A Commander's Tool on the Future Battlefield, (linked here):

                      The vision created by the battle space view of warfare eventually becomes the framework from which the commander derives his intent and his concept of the operation. One such tool that is contained within the notion of battle space is outlined in Lind’s book, where he explains the Boyd Theory of maneuver warfare.

                      “Each party to a conflict begins by observing. He observes himself, his physical surroundings and his enemy. On the basis of his observation, he orients, that is to say, he makes a mental image or ‘snapshot’ of his situation. On the basis of this orientation, he makes a decision. He puts the decision into effect, he acts.”
                      (page 43)

                      I think Colin Powell can be included for the so-called Powell Doctrine. Even though GWB sort-of disregarded it, he also sort-of didn't. I say that because its easy to assert GWB didn't have an exit strategy. From what I've read, they actually did. Unfortunately, it was a bad strategy that didn't work.

                      I also included Marshall, since he was central to the development of the officer corps that led the military in WWII and in the early Cold War.

                      And US Grant.

                      My other would be Alfred Thayer Mahan.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                        Gavin of course was airbronne fan. We now have one AB Div that hasn't been used as AB in 50 years. So what effect did he have on the American way of war? Gen Moore, a brave man that made Flag rank.
                        Actually,The 82d did jump into Panama,it was also the first time that Tanks(M551 Sheridans)were airdropped in combat.
                        If you Ain't Cav,You Ain't S---

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Jumps may be rare in modern times,but again this thread doesn't specify time period.Gavin wasn't just known for his airborne tactics.He was known for thinkin goutside the box.He was a great leader,he would be the first to jump.He was also a major proponent on the desegregation of the military.
                          ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                          BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                          BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Modern American wars are all fought with a very high level of political sensitivity. The first to experience this kind of sensitivity would have to be Ridgeway in the later part of Korea. Westmoreland would then be beat over the head with it. Generals like Washington, Lee or Patton wouldn't even recognize today's war making style by Americans.

                            If we are talking about who made the most impact on today's style of fighting, I would have to say it has to be someone very recent. The old guys may have been great, but they didn't have to fight in today's political climate.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Miss Saigon View Post
                              Modern American wars are all fought with a very high level of political sensitivity. The first to experience this kind of sensitivity would have to be Ridgeway in the later part of Korea. Westmoreland would then be beat over the head with it. Generals like Washington, Lee or Patton wouldn't even recognize today's war making style by Americans.

                              If we are talking about who made the most impact on today's style of fighting, I would have to say it has to be someone very recent. The old guys may have been great, but they didn't have to fight in today's political climate.
                              I respectfully disagree. When studying the US-Mexico War from 1846-1848 you see a very politically charged war and the interference of politics on a level that rivaled Korea and Vietnam. You even had embedded reporters with Taylor and Scott. The interference and political wrangling of Polk is an interesting study as well.
                              Taylor to Santa Anna: "Tell him to go to hell."
                              As translated by Major Bliss: "In reply to your note of this date, summoning me to surrender my forces at discretion, I beg leave to say that I decline acceding to your request."

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X