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Pentagon Changes 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Enforcement

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  • Pentagon Changes 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Enforcement

    Fyi

    pentagon changes 'don't ask, don't tell' enforcement <http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=58476>
    thu, 25 mar 2010 12:45:00 -0500


    pentagon changes 'don't ask, don't tell' enforcement


    by army sgt. 1st class michael j. Carden american forces press service

    washington, march 25, 2010 - defense secretary robert m. Gates today announced changes to the pentagon's regulation on homosexuals serving in the military that he said make the defense department's enforcement of the so-called "don't ask, don't tell" law "fairer and more appropriate."
    Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

    Initiated Chief Petty Officer
    Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

  • #2
    About time the army at least looked like it was catching up with 21st century morality!
    "Little pigs, little pigs, I've come to nick your tele!"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Balloonatic View Post
      About time the army at least looked like it was catching up with 21st century morality!
      I disagree, but that is my personal opinion.

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      • #4
        personally I'm not into the morality issue of homosexuality, but I'm curious, and this might be a stupid question, but why is there even a ban on homosexuality in the army? what's the rationale behind the ban, and isn't this a violation of the law against discrimination?
        Last edited by GMan88; 26 Mar 10, 13:19.
        "We have no white flag."

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        • #5
          Originally posted by GMan88 View Post
          personally I'm not into the morality issue of homosexuality, but I'm curious, and this might be a stupid question, but why is there even a ban on homosexuality in the army? what's the rationale behind the ban, and isn't this a violation of the law against discrimination?
          Basically it boils down to the belief that military personnel are so homophobic that having an out homosexual will cause uneasiness, hostility, fears of being hit on and a general decline in discipline. 'Don't ask don't tell' is not to discriminate against gays in and of itself, but to 'protect' bigots who can't handle the fact that homosexuals exist. I think it's kinda disgusting, and counterproductive since sooner or latter we WILL need to rebuild a draft army, composed of all kinds of people that may be offensive to military tastes. Best to do it now while we aren't at war with the Chi-Coms.
          How many Allied tanks it would take to destroy a Maus?
          275. Because that's how many shells there are in the Maus. Then it could probably crush some more until it ran out of gas. - Surfinbird

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          • #6
            My Dad was in the Air Force from 1958 till the early sixties.When the whole don't ask/don't tell thing came up,he told me how they did it in his barracks.There was one guy that was openly gay.The gay guy was instructed,well ordered to keep his hands and comments to himself,"or else".Basically his lifestyle had no place in discussion in the barracks.The rest of the men were told the same basic thing.Leave him alone,any harrassment would be dealt with harshly.Now my Dad was not an open man,but at the same time he wasn't Archie Bunker either.Everyone got along just fine,everybody remained "good buddies".

            But we must acknowledge that that different folks have different opinions.And those opinions are as valid as anyone elses.So on one hand,it shouldn't be a big deal that homosexuals serve.But on the other it is a big deal.And there really is no right or wrong in this situation until it becomes open harrassment or even violence.

            I had a friend that is openly gay.I wans't anissue because he generally didn't hit on his friends.Apparently,he liked me,he would make little comments here and there.But one night after a concert he performed in(he is an excellent tuba player) at the Lincoln Center,he let it "all hang out" as we gathered with friends at a diner.He crossed the line big time.I let him know that if he didn't back off,I would introduce him to a whole new meaning of the term "gay-bashing".Now this was someone I had known for years.I had accepted his lifestyle,because he didn't really push it on me.

            Think about it,is there really a difference between a gay guy bunking with a bunch of guys or a hetero guy bunking with a bunch of girls?
            ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

            BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

            BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Balloonatic View Post
              About time the army at least looked like it was catching up with 21st century morality!
              Sometimes when the choices are being politically correct or not dying 21st century "morality" is of lessened importance.

              I would think having a better army is a true aspiration for morality, I'm not sure this is the path towards it.

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              • #8
                Think about it,is there really a difference between a gay guy bunking with a bunch of guys or a hetero guy bunking with a bunch of girls?



                Gixxer nailed it correctly there. Why seperate accomadations for men and women.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by bass_man86 View Post
                  Fyi
                  Oh Dear, it's already standing room only!!
                  'By Horse by Tram'.


                  I was in when they needed 'em,not feeded 'em.
                  " Youuu 'Orrible Lot!"

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                  • #10
                    I've known some gay friends, and there's really no problem. I guess having to live in close quarters day in and day out, though, that's another matter...
                    "We have no white flag."

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                    • #11
                      I think that whilst soldiers have a robust sense of humour they are forced by virtue of their occupation to be very tolerant. I've known soldiers who were quite racist but have black or asian friends. Military life tests everyone and forces you to judge those serving with you as individuals, I think the genuine homophones will be forced under their rocks along with all the other biggots.

                      As for morality, I think that the majority of society accepts a common standard, I think for the most part we accept thet homophobia is wrong. At the very least I've yet to see an argument against it that holds water and wasn't based on fear, disgust or religion. So whatever peoples personal feelings I think there is sufficient reason behind this change for it to be seen as positive.
                      "Little pigs, little pigs, I've come to nick your tele!"

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                      • #12
                        I think it's important for people to remember that this is a two way street.This problem can't be solved by simply forcing heterosexual troops to just accept their gay comrades.The homosexual troops must also keep their behavior in line.A heterosexual soldier has every right to dislike homosexuals,so long as that doesn't affect anyone else,just as a homosexual has a right to be gay,so long as it doesn't affect anyone else.I think most folks on both sides will be able to keep their comments and hands to themselves.But there will be situations that won't be handled properly due to political correctness.One of those potential situations will be a gay guy,bunking with a bunch of guys,won't be able to keep his comments to himself,will cross the line,and get his ass kicked.And that's not homophobia on the part of the ass kicker,that's a normal reaction to a very uncomfortable form of sexual harrassment.Like I said,in order for it all to work,it needs to be a two way street with the troops giving each other mutual respect,and with enforcement treating both sides equally.
                        ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                        BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                        BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

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                        • #13
                          but someone here raised an interesting point. Isn't a gay guy bunking with other guys be somewhat similar to a straight guy bunking with girls?
                          "We have no white flag."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Balloonatic View Post
                            I think that whilst soldiers have a robust sense of humour they are forced by virtue of their occupation to be very tolerant. I've known soldiers who were quite racist but have black or asian friends. Military life tests everyone and forces you to judge those serving with you as individuals, I think the genuine homophones will be forced under their rocks along with all the other biggots.

                            As for morality, I think that the majority of society accepts a common standard, I think for the most part we accept thet homophobia is wrong. At the very least I've yet to see an argument against it that holds water and wasn't based on fear, disgust or religion. So whatever peoples personal feelings I think there is sufficient reason behind this change for it to be seen as positive.
                            This has nothing to do with racism or for the matter opinions in general.
                            This is purely about unit cohesion and the chances a unit has for both meeting it's objectives and bringing home the maximum possible amount of living members.

                            Like Gixxer said before me, if there's no problem omitting gay people into "straight" units, there should be no problems with co-ed showers, latrines and barracks.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Balloonatic View Post

                              As for morality, I think that the majority of society accepts a common standard, I think for the most part we accept thet homophobia is wrong. At the very least I've yet to see an argument against it that holds water and wasn't based on fear, disgust or religion. So whatever peoples personal feelings I think there is sufficient reason behind this change for it to be seen as positive.
                              How about arguments based on health, both physical and mental?
                              "It's like shooting rats in a barrel."
                              "You'll be in a barrel if you don't watch out for the fighters!"

                              "Talking about airplanes is a very pleasant mental disease."
                              Sergei(son of Igor) Sikorsky, 'AOPA Pilot' magazine February 2003.

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