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  • What do the Iraqis really think of us?

    Depending on who you listen to, the Iraqis either: 1) Adore us; or 2) Despise us. Of course, this is largely governed by the political orientation of the person doing the talking. But what do you think? Do they love us, hate us, don't care, or otherwise?
    0
    They love us!!
    0%
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    With exceptions, the y think we're pretty good
    0%
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    Over than that we got rid of Saddam, they don't care
    0%
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    The don't much care for us, but they'll tolerate us for now
    0%
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    They hate the ground we walk on, never mind us!!
    0%
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    The poll is expired.

    Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
    (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

  • #2
    Re: What do the Iraqis really think of us?

    Originally posted by hogdriver
    Depending on who you listen to, the Iraqis either: 1) Adore us; or 2) Despise us. Of course, this is largely governed by the political orientation of the person doing the talking. But what do you think? Do they love us, hate us, don't care, or otherwise?
    I voted for option 2.

    I think they are just normal people who have been ground into the dirt for nearly a quarter of a century by their leadership. I think, recent abuses aside, they are OK with us - we got rid of Saddam and we are genuinely trying to make their country a better place for them. The fact that Iraq was run as a secular state under Saddam means that, as normal people, they aren't as rabidly anti-west as many of the Muslim states or as many in the media would have us believe.

    I've never been there, and I have no special insight, but this is the global picture I've put together by putting all the various news sources together and by reading between the lines.

    We are being misled by the media into thinking that:

    a) Everything in Iraq is going horribly wrong.

    b) We are losing the "war".

    c) We are hated by everybody in Iraq.

    I do not believe any of this is actually the case.

    Dr. S.
    Imagine a ball of iron, the size of the sun. And once a year a tiny sparrow brushes its surface with the tip of its wing. And when that ball of iron, the size of the sun, is worn away to nothing, your punishment will barely have begun.

    www.sinisterincorporated.co.uk

    www.tabletown.co.uk

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    • #3
      Weren't there hundreds of people cheering for our troops as they marched/drove into their cities? Remember when our tanks helped pull down that big ugly statue of SH? (Can anything bearing the image of SH not be construed as 'ugly'?)
      "You realize that if I could actually purchase a weapon, I would stab you with it now?" --Roy, Order of the Stick #136

      Governor of South Florida, Cuba, Louisiana, Manhattan, Hawaii, Illinois, Moon and Mars. Chief of Cybernetics Div., S.INC

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      • #4
        The polls of Iraqis that we get down here (polls of Iraqis, taken by Iraqis) indicate that in Southern Iraq (not the Sunni triangle) some 10% are very happy with us, etc. (I'd say that would be #1 on the poll). Some 5% or so think we have overstayed our welcome and it's time to go (these would be the last choice on the poll). The rest are the vast "silent majority" who accept us because we keep the peace and are making things better (mainly through infrastructure improvements; this would be the middle 3 choices on the poll).

        IMHO, Dr Sinister hit the nail on the nail on the head in his post. The press in the US and UK focuses on a couple of thousand Sunnis in Fallujah and a couple of hundred nuts following this Sadr goober around, and ignore the other 26million Iraqis. Right now, even those guys are behaving, for the main part (with 26million people, there's always someone who's not behaving).

        JS
        Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
        Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


        "Never pet a burning dog."

        RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
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        • #5
          I voted the fourth option as it only one close to my evaluation of the matter. I think the Shitties majority see us as an instrument of their Islamic God and therefore only a tool of history. The usefulness of the tool is over for they have Saddam removed and the way is clear for a ethic/religious power struggle against the Sunnis and Kurds for control of the nation. They may wait for a western forces to leave and abandon the Iraq exile western puppet government behind. Then a serious civil war will commence. Presently, the current revolts may prove isolated and we can delude ourselves that things may work out. It can not be ruled out that the revolts may spark the pending civil war prematurely. They may temporarily unite to make a major guerilla war nationwide upon the westerners. Vietnam.

          It was truely be a tragic happening for the modern secular Iraq citizen/families to be abandoned to the Islamic jihadist theocracy. These secularist families are not in the majority and compose of all types of Iraq people. They believe in secular education and not jihadist schools. They were protected somewhat under the secular dictatorship of Saddam. This does not mean they believe in a democarcy western style. They only knew the old Baathist party methods which was a one party state organization. It was a home grown creature and not imposed on them from westerners. They will not trust anything imposed by westerners.

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          • #6
            What do they think of us? Ask em again in 10 years.
            "War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want."
            General William "Uncle Billy" Sherman

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Bo Archer
              It was truely be a tragic happening for the modern secular Iraq citizen/families to be abandoned to the Islamic jihadist theocracy. These secularist families are not in the majority and compose of all types of Iraq people. They believe in secular education and not jihadist schools. They were protected somewhat under the secular dictatorship of Saddam.
              I disagree strongly that they are not the majority. Of the 26million people in Iraq, 65% are Shia (I will not repeat your slur); of these 17million, a few hundred follow this goober, Sadr. The rest are as devout as they want to be -- I see them every day following Islam about the way most Americans follow Christianity (barely).
              The only people protected under Saddam were his family/tribe, his fellow criminals, and those who escaped his attention.
              This does not mean they believe in a democarcy western style. They only knew the old Baathist party methods which was a one party state organization. It was a home grown creature and not imposed on them from westerners. They will not trust anything imposed by westerners.
              Completely true, and I suspect this is the future of Iraq, but as long as they behave and don't threaten their neighbors, I don't care and don't think the world should.
              JS
              Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
              Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


              "Never pet a burning dog."

              RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
              http://www.mormon.org
              http://www.sca.org
              http://www.scv.org/
              http://www.scouting.org/

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Janos
                [B]I disagree strongly that they are not the majority. Of the 26million people in Iraq, 65% are Shia (I will not repeat your slur); of these 17million, a few hundred follow this goober, Sadr. The rest are as devout as they want to be -- I see them every day following Islam about the way most Americans follow Christianity (barely).
                The only people protected under Saddam were his family/tribe, his fellow criminals, and those who escaped his attention.

                Completely true, and I suspect this is the future of Iraq, but as long as they behave and don't threaten their neighbors, I don't care and don't think the world should.
                JS
                Janos,
                Your "on-the-scene" observations are brilliant, and are much appreciated. In a way, I wish I was back over there and able to see things for myself, but another (larger) part is happy that I'm here. I have no doubt that the environment there now is vastly different from my time there in 1990-91.
                Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
                (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

                Comment


                • #9
                  As I've never been to Iraq I can't comment from first-hand knowledge, but from many witnesses (I live near the base of the 3rd ID, 1-75th Rangers, etc.) is exactly what Janos has said. The common Iraqi is an alright guy (or gal). They just want to leave their lives in peace. Of course, they may have a little beef with us: how would you like foreign troops in your country, no matter how good intentioned they are. Its normal. But they definitely don't want us to pick up and leave anytime soon. Not until its quited down and all those terrorist scum have been eradicated. Just my second-hand opinion.
                  "Anything worth fighting for is worth fighting dirty for"
                  "The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching"

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                  • #10
                    Janos


                    Just read your thread this date. You have completely misunderstood my thread that you replied to. I was not implying that the Shia people were not the majority as you indicated that I was. I was simply stating that those Iraq people who are secularists were not the majority which was my point that the secularists may be abandoned to a pending theocracy of Islamist non-secularists. I suppose this explains your failure to understand what I meant in the statement Saddam "somewhat" provided some protection to this secular minority during his bloody dictatorship. Many of Saddam's victims were the islamists who wanted an Iranian islamist theocracy state. Remember he slaughter an estimated 300,000 at the end of the first war while Bush1 administration stood by and watched. Ironically, the US is fighting the same people (Sadr's rebels) today. So experts fear that Iran is one again agitating, funding, and furnishing supplies for the great revolt to again attempt to set up an Islamic jihadist theocracy.

                    I have no understanding of what you are talking about that I have made a slur. Can I guess that maybe it was my spelling of Shitties as opposed to Shia? I am no expret in the correct spellings and I assumed both ways are correct. I have seen it spelled both ways but I do not know for sure. Prehaps instead of our sharp remark you would be kind enough to educate me on this issue if in fact that is what you called my slur. I not trying to be sharp with you its that I really do not know.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bo Archer
                      Janos
                      Just read your thread this date. You have completely misunderstood my thread that you replied to. I was not implying that the Shia people were not the majority as you indicated that I was. I was simply stating that those Iraq people who are secularists were not the majority which was my point that the secularists may be abandoned to a pending theocracy of Islamist non-secularists. I suppose this explains your failure to understand what I meant in the statement Saddam "somewhat" provided some protection to this secular minority during his bloody dictatorship. Many of Saddam's victims were the islamists who wanted an Iranian islamist theocracy state. Remember he slaughter an estimated 300,000 at the end of the first war while Bush1 administration stood by and watched. Ironically, the US is fighting the same people (Sadr's rebels) today. So experts fear that Iran is one again agitating, funding, and furnishing supplies for the great revolt to again attempt to set up an Islamic jihadist theocracy.
                      I hope you'll forgive my repeated failings. I don't agree that the majority here are islamists either though. The average Iraqi is secular, not a zealot.
                      How do you define Islamist? I think that may be the issue. The definition the military and most of the press uses is for someone who seeks to establish a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy. Osama bin Laden and Moqtada Sadr are Islamists. The Grand Ayatollah Sistani (supreme Shi'a religious authority in Iraq) is not. Virtually all Shi'a and most other Iraqis (including Christians) follow Sistani's lead -- I have this from their own lips at a conference I attended with some the highest authorities in SE Iraq.
                      I have no understanding of what you are talking about that I have made a slur. Can I guess that maybe it was my spelling of Shitties as opposed to Shia? I am no expret in the correct spellings and I assumed both ways are correct. I have seen it spelled both ways but I do not know for sure. Prehaps instead of our sharp remark you would be kind enough to educate me on this issue if in fact that is what you called my slur. I not trying to be sharp with you its that I really do not know.
                      Shi'a is the sect, Shi'ites are the people. I have never seen the other, but have heard it as a slur and assumed you were doing the same. My apologies for a false accusation.
                      JS
                      Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
                      Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


                      "Never pet a burning dog."

                      RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
                      http://www.mormon.org
                      http://www.sca.org
                      http://www.scv.org/
                      http://www.scouting.org/

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hogdriver
                        Janos,
                        Your "on-the-scene" observations are brilliant, and are much appreciated. In a way, I wish I was back over there and able to see things for myself, but another (larger) part is happy that I'm here. I have no doubt that the environment there now is vastly different from my time there in 1990-91.
                        Well, ya gotta learn something in 15 months. I'm just in a good location to see what's happening.
                        Unfortunately, I wasn't here in 1990-91 (I volunteered 3 times and finally got sent to Scott AFB to shut me up).
                        ...And you can have my job! Come on over! BYO Flak jacket -- that's not hail on the roof!
                        JS
                        Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
                        Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


                        "Never pet a burning dog."

                        RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
                        http://www.mormon.org
                        http://www.sca.org
                        http://www.scv.org/
                        http://www.scouting.org/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Janos
                          Well, ya gotta learn something in 15 months. I'm just in a good location to see what's happening.
                          Unfortunately, I wasn't here in 1990-91 (I volunteered 3 times and finally got sent to Scott AFB to shut me up).
                          ...And you can have my job! Come on over! BYO Flak jacket -- that's not hail on the roof!
                          JS
                          No, I wouldn't dream of taking it from you. As fun as my previous visits to the region, were, I think I'll just stay here. BTW, talk about contrasts, we had four inches of snow on Wednedsday. That's ND for you.
                          Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
                          (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

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                          • #14
                            From what I hear most of these Nuts killing our guys are not Iraqes but terrorests from surrounding nations.

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                            • #15
                              Janos


                              Thanks for the education of the proper spellings of Shi'ites and Shi'a. I intended no disrespect and acted out of ignorance of this issue of proper spelling.

                              I sincerely hope your good feelings about the great abundance of secular loving moslems is reality because if so these people will at least establish a secular government of some type that will resist an Islamist fundamentalist state. The latter type oppressive and dangerous state if established would make all our government's reported achievements turn into a disgraceful foreign policy blunder.

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