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What military force types are most important today?

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  • General_Jacke
    replied
    Originally posted by 82redleg View Post

    The USMC is a separate military service within the Department of the Navy- it is not part of the US Navy, which is another service. In wartime, control of the Coast Guard can be passed to the Department of the Navy, too, making three services inside the department.
    they are a corps within the navy.
    Marine officers come out of the Naval Academy, there is no such thing as a marine medic, they are part of the DoN, if that's not being part of the navy, i don't know what is. they are their own distinct fighting force from the navy sure, but they are part of the navy

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  • OttoHarkaman
    replied
    Originally posted by Nichols View Post

    I would say amphibious group because it usually has an attack sub attached to it...
    at least that is what we were told.

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  • marktwain
    replied
    Ye olde Anglo Saxon hue and cry.
    Get
    there cheapest with them mostest buddies....

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  • Nichols
    replied
    Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
    This can all be confusing.
    That my friend is the most accurate statement in this thread.

    The MEF, MEB, and MEU has a headquarters element with no troops. The reason for this is that when they deploy, they are a combination of three separate elements; ground, air, and logistics (4th element when you include the HQ) There mission as a MAGTF is different than a regular force. A line battalion needs to be trained to an infantry standard. They attach to the MAGTF 6 months before deployment to get trained in MAGTF specific missions.

    The 4th Marine HQ is permanently in Okinawa but her battalions are part of Regiments in CONUS. The 4th Marines get their forces from CONUS on 6 month deployments. An example is when I was in 1/6, we detached from 2nd Marine Division and attached to 3rd Marine Division under 4th Marines. We were not part of a MEU so our training was straight up infantry focused.

    Years later I was in 2/1 that was focused on the MAGTF mission. We focused on infantry tasks until 6 months before deployment when we attached to the MEU. Then we started the specialized training; smallboat operations, NEO, TRAP, VBSS....... When I was with 2/1 at Pendleton we had a battalion from 4th Marines as TO to 1st Marine Regiment. This gave the regiment 4 battalions to focus on the deployment tempo; 1 deployed, 1 coming back, 1 training, and 1 rebuilding.

    Depending on requirements, 9th Marine regiment gets deactivated or reactivated....as required. When I checked into 1/9; 3 months later our colors were cased and we became 2/1.

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  • Nichols
    replied
    Originally posted by OttoHarkaman View Post
    Amphibious Group vs Attack Sub and the winner is?
    I would say amphibious group because it usually has an attack sub attached to it...
    at least that is what we were told.

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  • OttoHarkaman
    replied
    Amphibious Group vs Attack Sub and the winner is?

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  • 82redleg
    replied
    Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post

    i never said there wasn't a reason for the marine corps...i only said that sailors were capable of handling security around distribution points for humanitarian aid, and the like, as well as the USMC is not it's own individual branch of the military. it's a corps within the navy...just like in WWII the air corps was a corps within the army...but now that's gone and we have the USAF as it's own branch.
    The USMC is a separate military service within the Department of the Navy- it is not part of the US Navy, which is another service. In wartime, control of the Coast Guard can be passed to the Department of the Navy, too, making three services inside the department.

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  • General_Jacke
    replied
    Originally posted by johns624 View Post
    Okay, I guess that I should stop hinting around. This is my poll, I thought out the parameters. If you want to talk about how sailors can do anything, start your own thread. There's a reason for a Marine Corps but you don't seem to be able to comprehend it.
    i never said there wasn't a reason for the marine corps...i only said that sailors were capable of handling security around distribution points for humanitarian aid, and the like, as well as the USMC is not it's own individual branch of the military. it's a corps within the navy...just like in WWII the air corps was a corps within the army...but now that's gone and we have the USAF as it's own branch.

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  • johns624
    replied
    Okay, I guess that I should stop hinting around. This is my poll, I thought out the parameters. If you want to talk about how sailors can do anything, start your own thread. There's a reason for a Marine Corps but you don't seem to be able to comprehend it.

    Leave a comment:


  • General_Jacke
    replied
    Originally posted by johns624 View Post

    When I said "ashore", I didn't mean on the pier.
    like i said sailors can handle it...love you ignored every point aside from the ECP i made. RIVRON guys can handle it, IA guys can handle it, VBSS and SRF-A trained guys can handle it...

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  • johns624
    replied
    Correct, the 3rd Division is smaller, but not as small as you think. Marine infantry battalions are normally larger than corresponding army units. The 1st ID, 2nd ID and 3rd ID also only have two active brigades of 3-4 battalions.

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  • Pruitt
    replied
    I understand the 3rd Marines is in Hawaii. There seems to be no third Regiment assigned to the division. There seems to be only two Infantry Regiments (3rd and 4th). To be a full strength division one needs three Infantry regiments/brigades. That gives them 6 Infantry Battalions instead of nine.

    I have been making jokes about the 10th Mountain Brigade being located in Louisiana for years. Mount Driskill is the highest point in Louisiana. it is 535 feet above sea level! Logic would have located the entire 10th Mountain in Colorado.

    Pruitt

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  • johns624
    replied
    Go to the official Marine Corps website. The 3rd Marine Division is HQed on Okinawa along with its 4th Infantry Regiment. Its 3rd Infantry Regiment is in Hawaii. It's no different than the Army's 10th Mountain Division being mostly at Ft Drum, NY with the rest at Ft Polk, LA.

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  • Pruitt
    replied
    This can all be confusing. The 3rd Marine Division does not have 9 Marine Infantry Battalions assigned. The first article I read stated the 3rd Marine Div had only three battalions of the 3rd Marine Regiment with the 7th Marine Regiment HQ present on Okinawa. The second article stated the 3rd Marine Div was in Hawaii with only the 3rd Marine Regiment. I can only guess that other attached Marine Battalions are in California. There seems to be two major bases in California, 29 Palms and Pendleton.

    I did not use TOE's from Desert Storm and OIF, because the two divisions mixed up the assigned battalions. One Brigade Commander was allowed to pick the units that would serve under him. This is nice if you can get it!

    While Congressional law mandates there be three Marine Divisions, it does not mandate there be a full division worth of units in each division.

    Pruitt

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  • 82redleg
    replied
    Originally posted by johns624 View Post

    Google is your friend. According to wiki---
    1st--1,5,7 Pendleton
    2nd--2,6,8 Lejeune
    3rd--3,4 Okinawa
    3rd Marine Regiment is assigned to 3rd MARDIV but based in Hawaii.

    Because of their dual system of Headquarters, the USMC ends up double-counting battalions, because at any given point, at least four of those battalions are committed to MEUs, and thus unavailable to their assigned regiment/division.

    If you look at the OOB for ODS and OIF 1, you can see the effect:
    ODS (I omitted non-infantry battalions)
    *I MEF
    **2nd MARDIV
    ***6th MAR: 2/2, 1/6, 3/6
    ***8th MAR: 2/4, 1/8, 3/23
    **1st MARDIV
    ***1st MAR: 1/1, 3/9
    ***3rd MAR: 1/3, 2/3, 3/3
    ***4th MAR: 2/7, 3/7
    ***7th MAR: 1/5, 1/7

    ​​​​​​​There were some Marine units afloat, too, I'm not sure of their composition- it may have been just the HQs without infantry battalions.

    OIF 1:
    * I MEF
    ** MEF HQ Group
    ***11th MEU: 2/6
    ***15th MEU: 2/1
    ***24th MEU: 2/2
    **1st MARDIV
    ***1st MAR: 3/1, 1/4, 2/23
    ***5th MAR: 1/5, 2/5, 3/5
    ***7th MAR: 1/7, 3/7, 3/4
    **2nd MEB
    ​​​​​​​***2nd MAR: 1/2, 3/2, 2/8

    Leave a comment:

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