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Converting GM, Ford, and Chrysler factories to build Tanks and Planes

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  • #16
    a good account of this in WW2 is the book "My Years with General Motors"
    Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
    Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
    Barbarossa Derailed I & II
    Battle of Kalinin October 1941

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    • #17
      Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

      You're overlooking the fact that, while humans may be immune to computer hacking, they are liable to labor actions, sickness, bribery, and propaganda. Indeed, the US Gov't so feared Nazi penetration of labor unions that the Office of Naval Intelligence reached out to Charles "Lucky" Luciano, who was then serving a sentence in Dannemora, offering him a presidential commutation in exchange for his influence on the waterfront and with the unions to keep the peace. "Blue Flue" we've all heard of, so no need to elaborate. Many a spy has also been turned by lure of cash: again, elaboration is unnecessary. And yes, Nazi propaganda did reach our shores.



      Nowadays, robots can be far more easily isolated from the internet than any human worker, that's for sure.
      The world can be great when tech and humans work together.

      I agree that Union leaders like any person, is subject to corruption. As for the Mafia, when was the last time there was a well known Don, had to be Gotti right? The days of the Mafia seem like a by gone era.


      As for the US Gov, the US Gov will seek to cut deals or work with even criminals if the work will better the country...that is what occured with the Dept of Navy reaching out to Luciano.

      The Third Reich did attempt to influence Americans. We both know of the site of Americans packing the MSG in 1939 for a Third Reich Rally. But Catholic figures like Father Coughlin whom supported Hitler were opposed by huge masses of Italian Americans some of whom were 2nd generation. It was the same in England, some Protestants and leading English approved of Hitler ..English people such as Oswald Mosley supported Hitler. But in the end, none of it mattered because most Americans and most British stood by the allied cause. Masses upon masses of American men and women from the middle class volunteered for the US military during WW2. .

      Of all groups, the US working man, The Steel worker and Auto worker they would stand tall against any Italian mobbed up guy. I would put my money on a Italian American steelworker in a barfight against some Mobster. And frankly most Italian Americans vehemently dislike the Mafia and they would use even harsher words to describe the mafia type guys.

      And just knowing that my dad and Grandpa were in Unions that had nothing to do with the mob, along with millions upon millions of other Americans who were in Unions that had nothing to do with the mob...we can safely say the Mob never had any control over Unions, perhaps some little mafia guy took a few football bets here and there for some Union guys but that is about it.



      My great Grandpa left Italy and came to the USA in 1920. He owned a saloon here in the states and if needed he would beat the hell out of some weak Italian loser from La Casa Nostra trying to shake down the saloon. And I have no doubt the Jewish Americans likewise majority of them abhor the Jewish mafia. The Jewish and Italian mobsters worked hand in hand, but the mafia types of the USA have always been largely opposed by the working class.

      Anti Union sentiment is anti American. I agree with you that humans are subject to corruption but our country would be a living hell if we did not have protection for workers. If anything, how about corporate crime and greed and how white collar criminals often get off with a light sentence.
      Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM

      Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

      George S Patton

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Salinator View Post
        Somewhere else, I was reading that one reason why the US Automobile Industry was bailed out due to National Security in case they were needed to build planes and tanks during a major war.

        What are your thoughts on this idea?
        Moronic. Most of them are hopelessly out of date structures with large brown fields (in fact the properties usually lie unsold as legally the site has to be cleaned up first.
        It would be far less expensive to purchase new sites and build anew.

        Also, such plants would not employ anywhere near the numbers of old workers let go.

        Whomever came up with this idea knows little about manufacturing.

        Others have dealt with the economical issues.

        Tuebor

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Tuebor View Post

          Moronic. Most of them are hopelessly out of date structures with large brown fields (in fact the properties usually lie unsold as legally the site has to be cleaned up first.
          It would be far less expensive to purchase new sites and build anew.

          Also, such plants would not employ anywhere near the numbers of old workers let go.

          Whomever came up with this idea knows little about manufacturing.

          Others have dealt with the economical issues.

          Tuebor
          I believe that he is referring to current assembly plants, not the unused ones.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Tuebor View Post

            Moronic. Most of them are hopelessly out of date structures with large brown fields (in fact the properties usually lie unsold as legally the site has to be cleaned up first.
            It would be far less expensive to purchase new sites and build anew.

            Also, such plants would not employ anywhere near the numbers of old workers let go.

            Whomever came up with this idea knows little about manufacturing.

            Others have dealt with the economical issues.

            Tuebor
            They had that issue with the former Bethlehem Steel plant in Lackawanna(also known as Steelawanna) NY. Some folks had issues with aspesdos and similar hazards.

            Another issue is that it is one of the worst sites in our country that is the old torn down steel mills that are just sitting dormant wasting space. Anyway one looks at it, it really is unfortunate that the American middle class is not as strong today as it was in the past. There are countess stories of former Steel workers having to get a lesser paying job due to their factory closing.

            Some cities do not have it, but in South Buffalo there is a mile or two of old factories just sitting dormant , factories that used to provide 60,000+ jobs that are now doing nothing...In the past these factories pumped out the war material that helped the allies win WW2 and helped to build up the entire country. I agree its a tough situation, but to see unused factories for a stretch mile or two is one of the worst sights anyone can witness in The USA.

            Something needs to be done to address these issues but as you bring up it needs to be done the right way.
            Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM

            Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

            George S Patton

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            • #21
              When it comes to US unions during WW 2, probably the most virulent was the United Mine Workers under John Lewis's control. He led the union on strikes with regular frequency, his first "wartime" one coming days before Pearl Harbor.

              Lewis was called a "traitor" by Harry Bridges, head of the Longshoreman's union. FDR called him a "Benedict Arnold." It got so bad that by mid 1943, Roosevelt was threatening to alternately draft every coal miner into the military and put them under military control or for the government to seize the coal mines and appoint new management and dissolve the union.

              By comparison the AFL and CIO unions (they weren't joined together yet) promised no strikes or walkouts for the duration of the war. Their leaders did try with moderate success to keep the factories open and running.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                When it comes to US unions during WW 2, probably the most virulent was the United Mine Workers under John Lewis's control. He led the union on strikes with regular frequency, his first "wartime" one coming days before Pearl Harbor.

                Lewis was called a "traitor" by Harry Bridges, head of the Longshoreman's union. FDR called him a "Benedict Arnold." It got so bad that by mid 1943, Roosevelt was threatening to alternately draft every coal miner into the military and put them under military control or for the government to seize the coal mines and appoint new management and dissolve the union.

                By comparison the AFL and CIO unions (they weren't joined together yet) promised no strikes or walkouts for the duration of the war. Their leaders did try with moderate success to keep the factories open and running.
                Good Point....
                in all fairness to John L Lewis, the coal industry labor Unions in the 1940's was only two decades away form open warfare- with various syndicates of mine owners.

                The company shop, with compulsory employee buying, the rental company housing, was the complete opposite of free enterprise and open markets.

                Canada was as bad as the United states In coal mining. Lewis was getting gains for his workers - while he could.
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlan_County_War
                The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by marktwain View Post

                  Good Point....
                  in all fairness to John L Lewis, the coal industry labor Unions in the 1940's was only two decades away form open warfare- with various syndicates of mine owners.

                  The company shop, with compulsory employee buying, the rental company housing, was the complete opposite of free enterprise and open markets.

                  Canada was as bad as the United states In coal mining. Lewis was getting gains for his workers - while he could.
                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlan_County_War
                  The mining industry back then was every bit as much a rat's nest due to management as unions. You're right, there were company-- everything-- in most mining towns. Sometimes, it was hard to tell who was screwing the workers more, the union or the company.

                  I've actually been in some of the old Phelps-Dodge mining company stores in places like Duncan and Douglas Arizona. And, I own lots in Oracle right next to San Manuel, a largely company owned town until recently when they closed the mine there.

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