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UN deems West Bank Barrier Illegal - Israelis could care less

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  • UN deems West Bank Barrier Illegal - Israelis could care less

    well the ICJ has just said the Barrier is illegal - big whoop.

    this is like saying "don't do that, it's not nice" to your child before it hits it's sibling. No enforcement of rulings leads to the idea that you can ignore them without consequence.

    which of course, the the case of the ICJ, you can.

    - another bureaucratic whitewash with no discernable outcome (other than maybe letting the ICJ justify it's existance)proudly brought to you by the sahmbles that is the UN.
    Now listening too;
    - Russell Robertson, ruining whatever credibility my football team once had.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Ivan Rapkinov
    well the ICJ has just said the Barrier is illegal - big whoop.

    this is like saying "don't do that, it's not nice" to your child before it hits it's sibling. No enforcement of rulings leads to the idea that you can ignore them without consequence.

    which of course, the the case of the ICJ, you can.

    - another bureaucratic whitewash with no discernable outcome (other than maybe letting the ICJ justify it's existance)proudly brought to you by the sahmbles that is the UN.
    The finding was unanimously with only one judge voting against the decision... and guess what, he came from the US of I am not biased A.

    I am sure would the UN try to do anything about it, not even speaking of sanctions here, just some formal protest, I know a specific 'I am not biased' country who would certainly veto any such attempt. :flag:

    But hey, a special country in on a mission of bringing peace and democracy to the middle east, so they certaily need to act as a role model, right?
    "The conventional army loses if it does not win. The guerrilla wins if he does not lose."

    Henry Alfred Kissinger

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Kraut
      The finding was unanimously with only one judge voting against the decision... and guess what, he came from the US of I am not biased A.

      I am sure would the UN try to do anything about it, not even speaking of sanctions here, just some formal protest, I know a specific 'I am not biased' country who would certainly veto any such attempt. :flag:

      But hey, a special country in on a mission of bringing peace and democracy to the middle east, so they certaily need to act as a role model, right?
      Well Bush did make a token gesture of objection some months ago by withholding millions of dollars because the West Bank Barrier did not conform to US policy. (Of course when you look at how much the US provides to Israel each year....) The US should strongly protest the establishment of the barrier, even if that means cutting more aid, like a billion.
      "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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      • #4
        The US just needs to withdraw completly from both sides, its none of our business; and serves no vital intrests. No more foreign aid, no more peace envoys, etc....
        "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Tim McBride
          The US just needs to withdraw completly from both sides, its none of our business; and serves no vital intrests. No more foreign aid, no more peace envoys, etc....
          And we will then be balmed for the ensuing war. No matter what, it's our fault.
          Editor-in-Chief
          GameSquad.com

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Don Maddox
            And we will then be balmed for the ensuing war. No matter what, it's our fault.
            Are you blamed from the palestinina terrorists attacks and Israels actions against them? No. So I highly doubt anyone accusing you from the war(just like you weren't accused of the preivous Israel-Arab wars).
            Wisdom is personal

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Karri
              Are you blamed from the palestinina terrorists attacks and Israels actions against them? No. So I highly doubt anyone accusing you from the war(just like you weren't accused of the preivous Israel-Arab wars).
              You haven't seen some of these debates huh?
              "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Don Maddox
                And we will then be balmed for the ensuing war. No matter what, it's our fault.
                So? It won't be our fault and we know it. I'm tired of US citizens(civilians and soliders alike) dieing for the 'peace' that does not exist.
                "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Don Maddox
                  And we will then be balmed for the ensuing war. No matter what, it's our fault.
                  Well, if it isn't your fight (?) then why not stay out? If it is your fight, well get into it openly. Don, actually what is your position on the Israel-Palestina conflict? More of the same doesn't seem much promising? Why is the US supporting Israel? What is in it for the US, what moral values are upheld?
                  "You can't change the rules in the middle of the game."
                  "Hey, you just made that rule up."


                  Heil Dicke Bertha!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dicke Bertha
                    Well, if it isn't your fight (?) then why not stay out? If it is your fight, well get into it openly. Don, actually what is your position on the Israel-Palestina conflict? More of the same doesn't seem much promising? Why is the US supporting Israel? What is in it for the US, what moral values are upheld?
                    I could say the same for Palestinians, if you're really on their side, then tell us exactly what they offer to you.

                    Palestinians can't offer the United States to make her more supportive of Palestine cause, because they have nothing to offer. Being oppressed doesn't mean a thing in the foreign policy realm. We have a lot of "oppressed" groups all over the world, you don't see America or any other country for that matter running to their sides.

                    Whether you like it or not, the foreign policy isn't meant for humanitarian missions, it's not meant for giving out something without expecting a trade-off of sorts.

                    I consider Israel a far more valuable ally than most of Middle East nations. I could care less about oil. I feel Israel has a lot to offer to the United States in terms of military alliance, intelligence, war on terrorism and acting as a valuable strategic ally.

                    I have my principles, if I were the US President, and Arabs offered me free oil and one trillion dollars to openly embrace Palestine cause, know what I would do? I would reject Arabs and send in some Army divisions to support Israel once for all.

                    Dan
                    Major James Holden, Georgia Badgers Militia of Rainbow Regiment, American Civil War

                    "Aim small, miss small."

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dicke Bertha
                      More of the same doesn't seem much promising? Why is the US supporting Israel? What is in it for the US, what moral values are upheld?
                      Good question. I believe the United States sees Israel in much the same way it did forty years ago; a democratic Jewish state surrounded by totalitarian Islamic regimes intent on her destruction. The grand ideal of liberal internationalism demands America lend assistance to this oppressed state to promote and defend the concept of democracy in the Middle East.

                      .............or at least that is how I interpret American foriegn policy toward Israel.

                      I think America find it difficult to view Israel as an oppressor. Terrorism, harsh words of Arabs, and our perception of history all seem to support the ideal that Israel is more of the victim. Because of this, actions carried out by Tel Aviv seem justified.

                      I agree with you, the present course is leading nowhere productive. The United States must re-evaluate its relationship with Israel to develop a more accurate policy. I don't mind aiding Israel because I do believe it is a victim. However, it is also clear the state has embraced the concept of oppression, which is just wrong.
                      "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

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                      • #12
                        Israel is just a problem all around. There are three religons arguable acknowledging the same diety yet fundamentally opposed to each other at some level. As poor as their behavior has been in the area I think the Jews have the most claim; yet somehow all three religons must respect each other and their overlapping histories and holy sites. Objectivly reading their holy works there is room for this, albiet small; since life is a jihad for all three, that shall eventually culminate in a pentultament battle.

                        Solutions? I have none, other than everybody keep from killing each other; which hasen't worked for quite some time now. All sides have proven their resolve and thier mettle. A willingness to die is sooo much no longer a statement. A willingness to peacefully coexist which is called for by all three religons is not. I actually think the Koran is the best to read because it is so simple. Unfortunatly I think to many moslems especially Arabic have lost sight of its message: God/Yahweh/Allah will judge his own by their nations and book. The enemies of one God, the idolatiers, and pagans, were the infidels. All sides have since used this for agression which MUST cease.

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                        • #13
                          Solomon might say the whole lot should be bulldozed into the ocean.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cheetah772
                            I could say the same for Palestinians, if you're really on their side, then tell us exactly what they offer to you.
                            So to disagree with US policy is siding with the enemy?

                            Palestinians can't offer the United States to make her more supportive of Palestine cause, because they have nothing to offer. Being oppressed doesn't mean a thing in the foreign policy realm. We have a lot of "oppressed" groups all over the world, you don't see America or any other country for that matter running to their sides.
                            Why did the US start supporting Israel then, better to have Jews go there than try to enter the US? You do see the US supporting oppresive regimes though, look at Iraq.

                            Whether you like it or not, the foreign policy isn't meant for humanitarian missions, it's not meant for giving out something without expecting a trade-off of sorts.
                            So an unstable world order with mass migrations of hordes of starving refugees is not a threat to US security?

                            I consider Israel a far more valuable ally than most of Middle East nations. I could care less about oil. I feel Israel has a lot to offer to the United States in terms of military alliance, intelligence, war on terrorism and acting as a valuable strategic ally.
                            But when it is more of a cause than a solution is it still a viable alliance for the US's security.

                            I have my principles, if I were the US President, and Arabs offered me free oil and one trillion dollars to openly embrace Palestine cause, know what I would do? I would reject Arabs and send in some Army divisions to support Israel once for all.
                            Better make that some army groups because that would inflame the region a hell of a lot more than it is now.
                            Not lip service, nor obsequious homage to superiors, nor servile observance of forms and customs...the Australian army is proof that individualism is the best and not the worst foundation upon which to build up collective discipline - General Monash

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Don Maddox
                              And we will then be balmed for the ensuing war. No matter what, it's our fault.
                              While there might be a certain level of blame directed at the US, this will be due to its position of supporting the Israelis no matter what the reality of the situation has been over the past decades.
                              Let us not forget that the US has vetoed Security Council resolutions that condemn the Israelis 15+(!) times... hell, the french vetoed the little attack on Iraq once and you guys renamed your food in protest!

                              Still, history aside, it is now time for the US to stand up and take the lead, by not standing up and not taking the lead... step out of this one. I agree that the US can hardly attack the Israelis for having the WMD that they do (you helped them get them in the first place anyway), nor can the US condemn people who have been, and acted as allies up until recently... but there WILL be, sooner or later, a retribution coming to the Israelis, and i think it is something no President (even you current one) would want to wish upon his people.

                              The Arab / Israeli conflict is an old one, and one that has no hope of a rational solution. While the Israeli's hold tight to the holocaust and wave it like a banner every time anyone so much as shakes their head at them they are starting to act a lot like those they say they despise! And i understand the Palastinians anger, if someone kicked us out of half of Australia and put in an Indonesian state i think we would want to fight too... even with rocks against Main Battle Tanks.

                              The US must stand up for what it believes in, i do believe that the people of the US genuinely want to be of service to the world, and are struggling with their inate ignorance as to the nature of what the rest of the world needs. But support of the 'Israeli Regime' is of no help to anyone.
                              Legion's ASL AARs

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