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  • The most epic military period ?

    In your opinion what is the greatest military period in History ?

    I say 1870-1945 for Germany, because if their conquests in the WW2 were numerous, equaling any other military conquests, like Napoleon’s one for example, they were made in the name of the Nazism. So I prefer to speak about a larger period.

    Concerning my choice, I would have liked to pick French Revolution and Napoleon’s wars, but I prefer to choose something else. Objectively I would say Rome. But finally I take Alexander the Great. Rome was build by a nation, when Alexander the Great was a single man, who never knew the defeat, and never lost his empire, dying before. And there is something quasi mythological in him.

    LaPalice.
    36
    Alexander the Great
    13.89%
    5
    Rome
    22.22%
    8
    French Revolution and Napoleon's wars
    30.56%
    11
    Germans from 1870 to 1945
    16.67%
    6
    Gengis Khan the Mongol
    11.11%
    4
    The British Empire
    0.00%
    0
    the Jihad in the beginning of Islam
    5.56%
    2
    Monsieur de La Palice est mort
    Mort devant Pavie.
    Un quart d'heure avant sa mort
    Il était encore en vie...

  • #2
    hmm... "epic" ? What do you mean exactly? The most land conquered or most people killed? Well, if those two were your standard, then no one could even hope to match the record of Gengis Khan .. .. The mongol cavalry led by him and his successors conquered literally almost all the known world to them (that is almost the entire Euro-Asia Continent) and 100 million people lost their lives during the war period (around half of the total population of human then.).
    .. hmm.. but that is epic?

    I'd rather wait for your clarification before vote
    Attn to ALL my opponents:

    If you sent me your turn and after 24 hours, you still did not get anything from me, please be sure to post in the forum to ask for what is going on.

    Remember, I ALWAYS reply within 24 hours, even if I do NOT have time to play my turn, in which case I will at least send you email to tell you that I will have to play it later, but I DO receive your turn.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ER_Chaser
      hmm... "epic" ? What do you mean exactly? The most land conquered or most people killed? Well, if those two were your standard, then no one could even hope to match the record of Gengis Khan .. .. The mongol cavalry led by him and his successors conquered literally almost all the known world to them (that is almost the entire Euro-Asia Continent) and 100 million people lost their lives during the war period (around half of the total population of human then.).
      .. hmm.. but that is epic?

      I'd rather wait for your clarification before vote
      There is not really exact meanning to "epic" here. It is more the military period you prefer, and why. Even military "period" is exact here, but I can't find the good word explaining what I want to say .

      LaPalice

      Edit : otherwise I would say "land", but it's not a definitive requirement (it's strange, this is the third word in this thread that I am not sure it corresponds to what I want to say).
      Last edited by LaPalice; 03 Oct 03, 14:52.
      Monsieur de La Palice est mort
      Mort devant Pavie.
      Un quart d'heure avant sa mort
      Il était encore en vie...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ER_Chaser
        hmm... "epic" ? What do you mean exactly? The most land conquered or most people killed? Well, if those two were your standard, then no one could even hope to match the record of Gengis Khan .. .. The mongol cavalry led by him and his successors conquered literally almost all the known world to them (that is almost the entire Euro-Asia Continent) and 100 million people lost their lives during the war period (around half of the total population of human then.).
        .. hmm.. but that is epic?

        I'd rather wait for your clarification before vote
        Is Epic the right word here?

        Are we talking about the bloodiest period in History?

        Or the one with the most Wars?

        Or Conquests?

        For me I would think along the lines of the greatest exponents of the Art of War.

        For all Wars are in many respects immoral. But while we can admire Human courage in individuals, whether they be numbered amongst the Victors or the Vanquished, or whether they be Aggressors or Defenders, we as Students of Military History should surely seek to find and identify those Commanders, Battles and Campaigns that displayed the highest degree of the practise of the Art of War.

        It would be hard to say overall if their is a 'best' in any of the above categories.

        Just a few I would admire for their Military Skills

        Alexander

        Caesar

        Belisarus

        The Arab Commanders of the 6th and 7th Centuries.

        Genghis Khan

        Tamburlane

        Turenne and Conde

        Duke of Marlborough

        Frederick the Great

        Napoleon

        Duke of Wellington

        General Lee

        U.S. Grant

        Think of better for tomorrow.
        http://www.irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

        Comment


        • #5
          Hmm, I think I have just found the word I wanted : what is the one (in the list or other one) you "admire". I use " " for admire because it is maybe not very politically correct concerning war and all that.

          LaPalice.
          Monsieur de La Palice est mort
          Mort devant Pavie.
          Un quart d'heure avant sa mort
          Il était encore en vie...

          Comment


          • #6
            hm.... I voted for Alexander ... not that much "admire", but compare to the rest, he was far better as a human being...

            BTW, do you think Rome is a too big and vague thing comparing to other choices? Also the British empire ... these two are in the same group ... but others are quite different... well, and the German stuff... well well ...
            Attn to ALL my opponents:

            If you sent me your turn and after 24 hours, you still did not get anything from me, please be sure to post in the forum to ask for what is going on.

            Remember, I ALWAYS reply within 24 hours, even if I do NOT have time to play my turn, in which case I will at least send you email to tell you that I will have to play it later, but I DO receive your turn.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ER_Chaser
              hm.... I voted for Alexander ... not that much "admire", but compare to the rest, he was far better as a human being...

              BTW, do you think Rome is a too big and vague thing comparing to other choices? Also the British empire ... these two are in the same group ... but others are quite different... well, and the German stuff... well well ...
              You are never satisfied !
              We can say that I offer different possible choices, like that everybody can find what he want.

              LaPalice.
              Monsieur de La Palice est mort
              Mort devant Pavie.
              Un quart d'heure avant sa mort
              Il était encore en vie...

              Comment


              • #8
                For my money we're in the greatest military period HERE AND NOW! It began when the failure of Communism resulted in the Soviet Union losing its superpower status,leaving the United States as the worlds only superpower to "police" the world,backed up by Britain,to slap down assorted crackpot terror organisations, tyrants and regimes that threaten the peace and stability of the world.
                Thank God America is Christian!
                "Raise a banner on a bare hilltop :flag: ,I have summoned my warriors to carry out my wrath..they come from faraway lands,the Lord and the weapons of his wrath,to destroy the whole country.. and destroy the sinners within it." (Isaiah 13:2-9)
                Sure,Saddam was toppled,but the next tyrant will be along somewhere in the world soon enough:- "Do not rejoice in his defeat you men,for though you put the bastard down,the bitch that bore him is in heat again.." (Berthold Brecht)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Poor Old Spike
                  For my money we're in the greatest military period HERE AND NOW! It began when the failure of Communism resulted in the Soviet Union losing its superpower status,leaving the United States as the worlds only superpower to "police" the world,backed up by Britain,to slap down assorted crackpot terror organisations, tyrants and regimes that threaten the peace and stability of the world.
                  Thank God America is Christian!
                  "Raise a banner on a bare hilltop :flag: ,I have summoned my warriors to carry out my wrath..they come from faraway lands,the Lord and the weapons of his wrath,to destroy the whole country.. and destroy the sinners within it." (Isaiah 13:2-9)
                  Sure,Saddam was toppled,but the next tyrant will be along somewhere in the world soon enough:- "Do not rejoice in his defeat you men,for though you put the bastard down,the bitch that bore him is in heat again.." (Berthold Brecht)
                  Well while we live in 'Interesting Times' as the Chinese would say they are not that exciting from a purely military standpoint. I mean in terms of Great Generals, Great battles etc.
                  http://www.irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ancient times: Scipio Africanus
                    modern times: Erich von Manstein
                    Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I hesitated between Rome and the French Revolution/Napoleon. I finally picked Rome. In terms of successful and lasting empire-building, Rome is the most glorious example. What is even better is that their strategic and tactical military superiority was also matched by savvy social and political abilities that made them loved by the people they conquered through the concept of Roman citizenship This is unmatched by any other example. No wonder it lasted close to 1000 years.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The Roman Empire was certainly above all others. As Tzar pointed out, it combined military success with a political and social system, which brought about more a sense of equality among the conquered. It also continues to have a tremendous impact on modern Western civiliation. Many of our political and social ideals were in part influenced and perfected by Romans.

                        The British Empire has to be respected. It's decline, though violent, was successfully contained by the people of that country. In 1944, Churchill and the British people realized it was no longer the Superpower. Instead of fighting, it accepted its fate, and cemented a position in the world. When America's day come, I hope we are equally aware of the changing world, and make the adjustments necessary to ensure survival.

                        French Revolution/Napoleon were indeed challenging, but I would not say it was as defining in history. Napoleon never really allowed the people to enjoy the fruit of their success. He sure as hell didn't combine military might with political and social skills, which are vital to maintaining an Empire.

                        Nazism never withstood political and social test. It did inspire a great Army. However, I believe the potential of the WWII Nazi Army was undermined by it's supreme leader.

                        The first Jihad was successful because it of the first four Caliphs, known as "The Rightly Guided Caliphs." These, like the Prophet Muhammad were able to unify political, social, and military factors with the thread of religion. Its decline is also directly linked to the conditions I mentioned. By combining politics and religion, there were always challenges. Even the fourth Caliphs, Ali, met heavy resistance, which he failed to subdue.

                        The United States is certainly the modern Empire. However, our status is about 58 years old. We're already experiencing a decline. The US has yet to adjust to the new world around it. Our status should depend on America's ability to accept changes and still remain on top, even if that doesn't mean overwhelming dominance. Whether or not we are wiped off the face of the planet, like Rome, or maintain a position in the world for many years to come, like Britian, Germany, and France, will depend on our decisions today.

                        So Rome is top on my list.
                        "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Deltapooh

                          The United States is certainly the modern Empire. However, our status is about 58 years old. We're already experiencing a decline. The US has yet to adjust to the new world around it. Our status should depend on America's ability to accept changes and still remain on top, even if that doesn't mean overwhelming dominance. Whether or not we are wiped off the face of the planet, like Rome, or maintain a position in the world for many years to come, like Britian, Germany, and France, will depend on our decisions today.
                          The case of the U.S. is interesting since we can't call it an Empire really. In terms of political and territorial control, the U.S. only controls the United States really. I think it is more appropriate to speak of the American influence or hegemony rather than the American empire.

                          The way I see it, the strongest hegemony America has is not military, not political and not commercial...it is cultural. Probably most Americans themselves don't realize it since it is their own culture, but the globe is bathing in American culture and lifestyle. Any non-American citizen can tell you this, especially non-anglophone speaking people. This cultural hegemony actually can be at the root of much of the anti-americanism movement around the world.

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                          • #14
                            --
                            Putting the 'Jihad' at the beginnings of Islam is ridiculous. If you put them then put the counter Jihad's of the Crusades and the Spanish fight for independence, it's all part of the same fight.

                            The Muslim period that deserves recognition is the rise and fall of the Ottoman Turks. Now that truly is epic. Consider the forces they had to defeat compared to the Arabs who overran a series of disorganized tribesmen. And of course Christianity's counter offensives after years of losses. I for one can hardly think of a better 'epic'.

                            Constantinople, Rhodes, Belgradex2, Mohacsx2, Varna, Viennax2, Kosovox2, Zenta...the list goes on.

                            I don't understand why this epic struggle is overlooked. Though I'm surprised it is.

                            The only one that surpasses this is Napoleon. The Greatest soldier who ever lived.
                            Last edited by Boromir; 04 Oct 03, 01:07.
                            "Thus, a prince should have no other object, nor any other thought, nor take anything else as his art but that of war and its orders and discipline; for that is the only art which is of concern to one who commands."

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                            • #15
                              Viva Espana! Viva El Cid! Spains 700-year epic against the invading Muslims prevented them gaining territory in Europe

                              PS:- Et vive La France aussi,for kicking Muslim butt at Tours-Poitiers and elsewhere! Magnifique
                              Last edited by Poor Old Spike; 04 Oct 03, 11:17.

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