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  • Tibet

    Thought of posting it in the Korea thread since Tibet was invaded and annexed by China at about the same time.

    I always wondered why did the UN not come to Tibet's help when China invaded as opposed to Korea? Couldn't support two fronts? Didn't want to? Ideas, comments, suggestions.
    http://canadiangenealogyandresearch.ca

    Soviet and Canadian medal collector!

  • #2
    Re: Tibet

    Originally posted by dannybou
    Thought of posting it in the Korea thread since Tibet was invaded and annexed by China at about the same time.

    I always wondered why did the UN not come to Tibet's help when China invaded as opposed to Korea? Couldn't support two fronts? Didn't want to? Ideas, comments, suggestions.
    Most likely a) as you noted, at that time, the UN did not feel comfortable with two missions at the same time. As opposed to now, when I believe the UN averages about 10-15 missions at any given time. b) as we have all seen, the UN likes to talk the issue (and the people) to death before acting. c) Tibet is literally in the middle of nowhere, hence most of the world would not know of it. The UN likes high-profile missions, so they may trumpet the "success".
    Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
    (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

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    • #3
      Re: Tibet

      Originally posted by dannybou
      Thought of posting it in the Korea thread since Tibet was invaded and annexed by China at about the same time.

      I always wondered why did the UN not come to Tibet's help when China invaded as opposed to Korea? Couldn't support two fronts? Didn't want to? Ideas, comments, suggestions.
      I also think that the lack of the ability to effectively get into Tibet. Also, the ability slip another resolution past the Soviet Union was NIL. The Soviets never again left the UN without at least one person to be able to tie up the Security Council till the Soviet Ambassador got back with instructions from Moscow.

      Cheers!


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      • #4
        When you propose a way to invade and defend Tibet now, let alone in 1950, then we can talk. I can't imagine how you would supply a defense of Tibet from China...
        “To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.”

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Overseer
          When you propose a way to invade and defend Tibet now, let alone in 1950, then we can talk. I can't imagine how you would supply a defense of Tibet from China...
          Then my question is if the country isn't easily defendable or eaily resupplied, should the UN and the rest of the world cast it aside then?
          http://canadiangenealogyandresearch.ca

          Soviet and Canadian medal collector!

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          • #6
            Re: Tibet

            Originally posted by dannybou
            Thought of posting it in the Korea thread since Tibet was invaded and annexed by China at about the same time.

            I always wondered why did the UN not come to Tibet's help when China invaded as opposed to Korea? Couldn't support two fronts? Didn't want to? Ideas, comments, suggestions.
            First of all, when did China "invade" Korea?

            Second, why is there a Dalai Lama saying Tibet is independent then it is? And China "invaded" Tibet?
            Attn to ALL my opponents:

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            • #7
              Re: Re: Tibet

              Originally posted by ER Chaser
              First of all, when did China "invade" Korea?

              Second, why is there a Dalai Lama saying Tibet is independent then it is? And China "invaded" Tibet?
              I think you are missing the point and I don't want to get into an argument about your definition of "invading". Maybe I wrote the original question so you didn't understand correctly, I didn't want to mislead you by implying that China invaded Korea, but was comparing the fact that both these events occurred in the same time and only one was responded to by the UN. That was my point! Maybe I should have written: I always wondered why did the UN not come to Tibet's help when China invaded as opposed to the Korea War?

              http://www.freetibet.org/
              http://tibet.org.actadivina.com/
              http://www.unhchr.ch/huridocda/hurid...6?OpenDocument

              Tibet is free???
              http://canadiangenealogyandresearch.ca

              Soviet and Canadian medal collector!

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              • #8
                Well it's not a matter of casting aside Tibet, I think there should be a great amount of political pressure (at the time and now) on China about Tibet. It's just there's not much the world could have feasibly done about it. I mean, I guess we could have landed on China's eastern coast and driven to Tibet, that'd probably be the easiest.

                There are a lot of places in the world that need help, it's just a matter of whether we can do much to really help them. And this kind of relates to one of the best arguments I heard for invading Iraq, in response to people saying it was just for oil. There are a lot of places with dictators or rulers that should be deposed, and we can't help them all, why shouldn't we help a country that is of some benefit to us? (For the record, I'm not actually for our invasion of Iraq, but I think it's a good point, why not help people somewhere we can actually gain something from). Sure you can argue there's some moral issues behind it, but why should we **** away lives and resources on something we will get no return from (aside from a warm fuzzy feeling inside)?
                “To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.”

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                • #9
                  Re: Re: Re: Tibet

                  Originally posted by dannybou


                  Tibet is free???
                  Well, I certainly can ignore that difference of wording in your question.

                  Let us come to the "real political" part of it: what was Tibet before 1949? What was its situation after it? And what is the situation right now?

                  Was Tibet free? And Is Tibet free? And Will it be free?

                  Well, probably the easiest question is the last one: sure, of course, it will be free.

                  Tibet wasn't free before 1949. It was a pure primitive society under slave-system. It did enjoy a "free religion" though ---- the Lama (a branch of Buddism in Tibet) was the ruling religion in the area. However, it was not independent ---- it reported to the central govt. of KMT (the nationalists ruling mainland and Tibet and Taiwan, before 1949).

                  In 1949, communists drove KMT troops off mainland China into Taiwan, although even today, ROC still claims her sovereignty over mainland (including Tibet and even Outer Mongolia). The religious leaders in Tibet, supported by British political powers, refused to accept the new communist rulers. In 1950, PLA "invaded" Tibet and "liberated" it from its Lama rulers. A large scale of "land reform" was then carried out in Tibet as well as any other places in in-land China. No matter how anti-communism you guys are, you cannot deny this was a big step forward. Tibet evolved from a slave system into ... well, communism --- if you'd call it that way. At least, the vast amount of slaves were freed, in the sense that they had basic rights of living, working, moving, voting ..etc... Of course, all these were to be destroyed soon in the terrible culture revolution blasted all across China. However, in 1950, I do not see anything bad happened to the people of Tibet. And there is no legal problem of the PRC claim of sovereignty over Tibet. ---- as a sidenote, no one from the west ever questioned the claim of ROC over Tibet and Outer Mongolia, no matter how absurd it is indeed.

                  Well, maybe Tibet did lose one thing --- the "free religion" ... it is not exactly gone. But it was indeed subdued. Communism does not allow any other ideological form at the same level of itself, let alone higher. Thus, the absolute authority of Lama was destroyed. Personally, I won't say this was good or bad. I view it as the struggle of two political powers, evil against evil. I do not care who wins. (The Lama monks were not peaceful monks as they appear today, they had armies back then. They were the true rulers of Tibet before the communists. They also kept large amount of slaves.)

                  I am also a personal fan of Dalai Lama. I think he is a very intelligent man and I share many views of his as well. However, this does not mean that I agree with his Tibet independence claim. There are hundreds of thousands of Tibet people living there. Whether Tibet should be independent, it would be t hese people who would have a say, not just a few religious elites. Not me, either, of course.

                  And, maybe against many of you guys' will: I think the 1.3 billion CHinese should all have a say on that issue. From 1950, every year, on average, from central govt., around $1 billion value of all kinds of aids were sent into the province to help the local people to establish schools, factories, hospitals .etc... The major transportation was through a highway built in the 50's-60's ---- it was such a difficult job that every 10 meters (30 feet that is) of the road buries a body of the constructors from in-land. ...

                  Nobody was helping Tibet? Well, maybe not the west. But we, the in-land Chinese did our best to help our brothers.

                  Is it free? No. The entire mainland China is not free from communism. But we are reforming and we achieved noticable success, including in areas of human rights. We will move forward. and I believe Tibet will be free together with the rest of China.
                  Attn to ALL my opponents:

                  If you sent me your turn and after 24 hours, you still did not get anything from me, please be sure to post in the forum to ask for what is going on.

                  Remember, I ALWAYS reply within 24 hours, even if I do NOT have time to play my turn, in which case I will at least send you email to tell you that I will have to play it later, but I DO receive your turn.

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                  • #10
                    Speaking of the Dalai Lama visit the Free Fire Zone for some great photos I took of him!
                    There cannot be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full. -Henry Kissinger

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                    • #11
                      Yeah, I suppose we can look over the complete exile of most buddhist monks and the destruction of hundreds of ancient temples.
                      “To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.”

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Overseer
                        Yeah, I suppose we can look over the complete exile of most buddhist monks and the destruction of hundreds of ancient temples.
                        Very good point. So you can send an army and invade China, force a regime change in China and then liberate Tibet.

                        on the way, you can exile all the communists and destroy thousands of ancient temples or whatever else. Smart strategy I must agree
                        Attn to ALL my opponents:

                        If you sent me your turn and after 24 hours, you still did not get anything from me, please be sure to post in the forum to ask for what is going on.

                        Remember, I ALWAYS reply within 24 hours, even if I do NOT have time to play my turn, in which case I will at least send you email to tell you that I will have to play it later, but I DO receive your turn.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Tibet

                          Originally posted by dannybou
                          Thought of posting it in the Korea thread since Tibet was invaded and annexed by China at about the same time.

                          I always wondered why did the UN not come to Tibet's help when China invaded as opposed to Korea? Couldn't support two fronts? Didn't want to? Ideas, comments, suggestions.
                          Not sure why the UN didn't go in , but the US did help -- the CIA trained resistance fighters (who quickly got killed due to a lack of subtlety ). The hard part would have been getting sufficient troops across India and the Himilayas to get there.

                          My guess is that the UN didn't figure it was worth the effort.

                          JS
                          Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
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                          • #14
                            The UN was just as worthless then as it is now

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                            • #15
                              Very good point. So you can send an army and invade China, force a regime change in China and then liberate Tibet.
                              Erm... I wasn't pushing for any action actually... I was just contradicting the fact that China has done nothing but good for Tibet...
                              “To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.”

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