Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A sensitive question

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

    So you don't agree with your own post #54
    Post #54 in this thread is yours, not mine. Try again.
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Massena View Post

      General Milley hit the proverbial nail on the head.
      This was your reply to #54, has your opinion changed?
      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Massena View Post
        How long was Jefferson Davis imprisoned? Two years in Fortress Monroe perhaps? And his US citizenship was revoked. It wasn't restored until the Carter administration.
        He should have shared a cell with his cabinet and his generals
        Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

          This was your reply to #54, has your opinion changed?
          Opinion on what? I posted that I agreed with General Milley and still do. I have no idea what you are trying to get at.
          We are not now that strength which in old days
          Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
          Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
          To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

          Comment


          • #95
            I post this on post 54,
            The Chairman of the JCOS has chimed in....The CSA was straight up a rebellion and an act of treason. In his opinion

            Top military officer labels Confederacy as treasonous as Pentagon takes ‘hard look’ at rebel ties
            https://www.msn.com
            "It was an act of treason at the time against the Union," Mark A. Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said of the Confederacy, as the Pentagon explores options for 10 Army installations named after rebel leaders.

            this was your reply
            "General Milley hit the proverbial nail on the head."

            So you either disagree with the generals statement or you agree with it. If you agree, then the leaders should have been tried to treason. If you disagree, then say so.
            Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
              I post this on post 54,
              The Chairman of the JCOS has chimed in....The CSA was straight up a rebellion and an act of treason. In his opinion

              Top military officer labels Confederacy as treasonous as Pentagon takes ‘hard look’ at rebel ties
              https://www.msn.com
              "It was an act of treason at the time against the Union," Mark A. Milley, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said of the Confederacy, as the Pentagon explores options for 10 Army installations named after rebel leaders.

              this was your reply
              "General Milley hit the proverbial nail on the head."

              So you either disagree with the generals statement or you agree with it. If you agree, then the leaders should have been tried to treason. If you disagree, then say so.
              Are you not familiar with the phrase, 'hit the proverbial nail on the head?' Good grief.

              Where did General Milley say that they should have been tried for treason?
              We are not now that strength which in old days
              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Massena View Post

                Are you not familiar with the phrase, 'hit the proverbial nail on the head?' Good grief.

                Where did General Milley say that they should have been tried for treason?
                So Gen. Milley states the Confederacy was " an act of treason against the Union" and that the leaders were traitors. , You replied that he hit the nail on the head.
                Of course it is a bit late to have a trial for them now. But, if as Ge, Milley says they are traitors and guilty of treason, and as you agreed, there can be only one conclusion. as much as you hate to admit it, you and I agree with Gen. Milley,
                Good Greif.... You agree they were traitors, What other option would there have been then to charge them with treason?
                When the commander of the joint chiefs of staff declares someone is a traitor, what next?
                Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                Comment


                • #98
                  What to keep in mind is that this is a civil war ...
                  The rules are different if they exist.
                  The South too felt betrayed by the federal government, otherwise secession would not have taken place.

                  So should we have done, as in France, during the Revolution?
                  The "Terror" in 1792 (September massacre) and 1793 allowed the mass arrests, the condemnations and to guillotine the so-called enemies of the exterior (First coalition) and the interior (Vendée) ... What especially allowed Robespierre to eliminate his adversaries (Girondins and Hebertists); by a fair return of things, he will suffer the same fate ...

                  So in 1865, who was guilty? Anyone in particular or everyone, North and South? And who should have been punished?

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by American87 View Post

                    Yes, those articles apply when the states are bound by the Constitution. For example, if you and I signed a contract to construct a house, we would be bound by that contract until it was fulfilled. If I built you a house, you would not be obligated to pay me over and over throughout the course of your life. No, you would simply pay me the agreed upon term, the house would be completed, and the contract fulfilled and terminated.

                    When the states seceded, they terminated their agreement with the federal government and other states. They were no longer bound to the articles of the constitution anymore that you are bound to terminated contracts you have signed in the past.
                    To imitate you with your metaphor on the contract:
                    when you open your refrigerator, and you see that one of the foods has expired, you throw it away and buy a new product ...

                    But now, the Constitution of the United States has no expiration date !!!!! It means "perpetual"

                    I have shown you, with proof, that Confederation is illegal ...
                    Your turn to show us where in the Constitution, it is clearly noted that secession is legal, no longer quote the 10th Amendment, nothing like it is written, in it ...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by daddut roger View Post

                      To imitate you with your metaphor on the contract:
                      when you open your refrigerator, and you see that one of the foods has expired, you throw it away and buy a new product ...

                      But now, the Constitution of the United States has no expiration date !!!!! It means "perpetual"

                      I have shown you, with proof, that Confederation is illegal ...
                      Your turn to show us where in the Constitution, it is clearly noted that secession is legal, no longer quote the 10th Amendment, nothing like it is written, in it ...
                      You've got it backwards- if the Constitution doesn't specifically prohibit secession, then it is allowed. It is not a case of a requirement for the power to be specified to the states- those powers not specifically delegated to the federal government are retained to the states. Your conception that the union is perpetual is not agreed to before 1861- otherwise, we wouldn't have had the Hartford Convention or had to fight a war to resolve the issue.

                      Comment


                      • Please confine debate to the post and not the poster. Thank you.

                        ACG Staff
                        Last edited by D1J1; 15 Jul 20, 09:32.
                        We are not now that strength which in old days
                        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by 82redleg View Post

                          You've got it backwards- if the Constitution doesn't specifically prohibit secession, then it is allowed. It is not a case of a requirement for the power to be specified to the states- those powers not specifically delegated to the federal government are retained to the states. Your conception that the union is perpetual is not agreed to before 1861- otherwise, we wouldn't have had the Hartford Convention or had to fight a war to resolve the issue.
                          Was the CSA ever recognized by any other nation?
                          Truth is, the CSA was a rebellion, nothing more, nothing less. the union officers who resigned their commission to join the rebellion were traitors.
                          The only thing that saved them was the benevolence of the Union leaders who wanted to heal the nation as quickly as possible.
                          IMO that was a mistake we are paying for today.
                          In what other nation are statutes to traitors placed in public squares? In what other nation are military bases named after men who lead armed forces against the nation in the hopes of prolonging slavery?
                          Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by 82redleg View Post

                            You've got it backwards- if the Constitution doesn't specifically prohibit secession, then it is allowed. It is not a case of a requirement for the power to be specified to the states- those powers not specifically delegated to the federal government are retained to the states. Your conception that the union is perpetual is not agreed to before 1861- otherwise, we wouldn't have had the Hartford Convention or had to fight a war to resolve the issue.
                            Please explain the logic of 'if the Constitution doesn't specifically prohibit secession, then it is allowed.' And where can that idea be found in the Federalist Papers or any other supporting document?
                            We are not now that strength which in old days
                            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by daddut roger View Post

                              To imitate you with your metaphor on the contract:
                              when you open your refrigerator, and you see that one of the foods has expired, you throw it away and buy a new product ...

                              But now, the Constitution of the United States has no expiration date !!!!! It means "perpetual"

                              I have shown you, with proof, that Confederation is illegal ...
                              Your turn to show us where in the Constitution, it is clearly noted that secession is legal, no longer quote the 10th Amendment, nothing like it is written, in it ...
                              So you're arguing secession was illegal—good, that's the point.

                              The X Ammendment is clear. It gives states the right to secede, along with all other powers that are not given to the federal government.

                              The onus is on you to show that the Union was/is perpetual. Do you really think its perpeutal? Is it impossible for the states to leave, no matter how cruel and unnecessary the federal government is? Why couldn't a state or states just leave? What's stopping them?
                              Or if you mean it's against the law to secede, then what are you basing your opinion on?
                              "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

                              "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by American87 View Post

                                So you're arguing secession was illegal—good, that's the point.

                                The X Ammendment is clear. It gives states the right to secede, along with all other powers that are not given to the federal government.

                                The onus is on you to show that the Union was/is perpetual. Do you really think its perpeutal? Is it impossible for the states to leave, no matter how cruel and unnecessary the federal government is? Why couldn't a state or states just leave? What's stopping them?
                                Or if you mean it's against the law to secede, then what are you basing your opinion on?
                                I don't think we're going to get through to him- he is convinced, and cannot accept that others could have good faith disagreements.

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                • Karri
                                  Prawn heads
                                  by Karri
                                  How do you cook them? How do you eat them?

                                  So far I've always just twisted them off, and discarded it along with the shells and such, only...
                                  Today, 11:40
                                • Jose50
                                  Thoughts on the US abandoning NATO
                                  by Jose50
                                  Now may be a good time for the NATO countries to start beefing up their materiel, personnel and alliances. There is a decided wave here in the US that...
                                  Today, 08:41
                                • Von Richter
                                  Sagittarius Rising...
                                  by Von Richter
                                  Just having a re-read of this book after it's stood for donkey's years on the bookshelf. Once again, within the first couple of pages, I'm transported...
                                  Today, 01:19
                                Working...
                                X