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  • #16
    Originally posted by American87 View Post

    Foote is the Southerner in The Civil War series, but he never touches the questions of slavery, states rights, Lincoln's racism, or anything like that. Any notion of the war being over power, or of the North being racist, is shut down or quickly dismissed in the mainstream. And that includes PBS documentaries.

    The P.C. line is that the war was fought over slavery, that the South were evil, backwards villains, and that the North had to set the country straight. As we all know, many Northerners were opposed to fighting for "the negro," there were draft riots, and Lincoln barely got the XIII Amendment passed in 1865. There are books on this subject, like Forced into Glory and The South Was Right!, but good luck finding these in pop culture.

    A good "moderate Republican" book is Carl Sandburg's biography of Lincoln. It was popular for a long time in the 30s, 40s, maybe even 50s, but at 6 volumes, it's not as well-read these days.







    Where in his trilogy does Foote denigrate the South? As for slavery not being the cause, explain the secession and war if Lincoln was not elected.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by grognard View Post








      Where in his trilogy does Foote denigrate the South? As for slavery not being the cause, explain the secession and war if Lincoln was not elected.
      I never said Foote denigrated the South; I was also referring to his comments in Ken Burns' documentary, not to his trilogy.

      There probably wouldn't have been a war if a Democrat won in 1860. Imo, the war was about power. The South wanted to maintain its hold on the federal government, and it promised to secede if the Northern party won. The Northern party did win.

      I also think there many reasons the North went to war with the South. Sure there were pro-Unionists, but most Northerners weren't fired for war until the attack on Fort Sumter. In other words, the Unionists had lukewarm support as long as the South was leaving peacefully.
      "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

      "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

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      • #18
        Originally posted by American87 View Post

        I never said Foote denigrated the South; I was also referring to his comments in Ken Burns' documentary, not to his trilogy.
        Shelby Foote by his own admission was a novelist. I once bought his trilogy but got rid of it after reading it and hearing Foote's comments in Burns' documentary. In my opinion, Foote is unreliable as a historian and should not be used as a reference. Catton may be older, but he is much more reliable and is an excellent historian-Foote is not.
        We are not now that strength which in old days
        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

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        • #19
          Numérisation_20191029.png my very first purchase with Bruce Catton's The AMERICAN HERITAGE Picture History of THE CIVIL WAR

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          • #20
            It's an excellent book. It was my first one also as a Christmas gift from my brother.
            We are not now that strength which in old days
            Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
            Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
            To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

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            • #21
              My favorite of those in my library is "The Gettysburg Campaign" by E. Coddington. I had to look a long time, through many, many used book sales before finding a copy.

              Regards,
              Dennis
              If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

              Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

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              • #22
                I have about 200 civil war books, my favorites are catton, burke, and wheeler. I do agree that foote is not a true historian.

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                • #23
                  From Catton, I have the French edition (1983), of the adaptation made by the author himself of "Centennial History of the Civil War" ...
                  In French, I also have a (1991) edition of McPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom"; and published in 2011, Keegan's "The American Civil War _ A Military History" ...

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                  • #24
                    A book I like a lot: Mark Swanson's "Atlas of the Civil War _ Month by Month"

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by daddut roger View Post
                      From Catton, I have the French edition (1983), of the adaptation made by the author himself of "Centennial History of the Civil War" ...
                      In French, I also have a (1991) edition of McPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom"; and published in 2011, Keegan's "The American Civil War _ A Military History" ...
                      Be careful of Keegan. He's one author I pay little attention to as he makes too many errors, especially in his book on the Civil War.
                      We are not now that strength which in old days
                      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by hallsofhistory View Post
                        Just curious, as it came up in a recent conversation I was having: how many Civil War books do you own and what is your ideal number of books for a well balanced personal collection? I thought I would ask around online to try to get everyone's opinion as this was something that's been on my mind for quite some time. Everyone's opinion is much appreciated.
                        I have well over a 100 books on the Civil War, mainly on certain battles and commanders, and try to keep the Civil War (much like the Napoleonic wars) at an arms length because it is can be so time and resource consuming. I could not hazard a guess on the number of books for a well-balanced collection, since there is always new sources or reinterpretations of sources in new books that would have to be read for a critical judgment.
                        Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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                        • #27
                          I have two bookcases of over 150 books and get more all the time. I buy what catches my eye. When I was younger I bought a lot of Catton books, but My very first was Chancellorsville, Lee's greatest victory by Stackpole. I spent my teen years thinking the war in the east was the whole war. I learned and now I am buying on the Western theater. I also have the major histories by Foote,etc.
                          My pride and joy though is a first edition 4 volume biography of Robert E Lee by Freeman that my grandfather gave me in 1970. I did not realize the value, not monetary, of these books until I was much older.
                          .
                          Is she crying? There's no crying in baseball.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Massena View Post

                            Shelby Foote by his own admission was a novelist. I once bought his trilogy but got rid of it after reading it and hearing Foote's comments in Burns' documentary. In my opinion, Foote is unreliable as a historian and should not be used as a reference. Catton may be older, but he is much more reliable and is an excellent historian-Foote is not.
                            Shelby Foote's trilogy is an artful narrative history which I believe will be carried in time much like Thucydides' Peloponnesian War.

                            Catton was old enough that early in his life he talked with and heard the stories of veterans from the Civil War which probably sparked his drive to study and write about the war with a realistic perspective from the soldiers' point of view.
                            Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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                            • #29
                              We'll have to agree to disagree on Foote. Some of the things he said regarding the size of battles in the Civil War demonstrate a total ignorance of European warfare of the period and before. You really cannot understand American warfare, especially for the Civil War without a working knowledge of European warfare from at least 1700 onwards. And Foote clearly demonstrated that he had no idea and that detracts from his work. That is why he is an unreliable historian, or more to the point, no historian at all.
                              We are not now that strength which in old days
                              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Neither of us will be around long enough to see if Foote gained immortality through the arts.
                                Last edited by R.N. Armstrong; 07 Nov 19, 16:13.
                                Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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