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It was all about slavery, and always had been

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  • #61
    Nah, Lincoln single handedly led the US into the civil war in wicked ways.
    He's to blame for the 600.000 dead.
    He was an unbelievably shrewd opportunist who manipulated thousands from the north and the south into a war.
    Prove me wrong.
    "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Rutger View Post
      Nah, Lincoln single handedly led the US into the civil war in wicked ways.
      He's to blame for the 600.000 dead.
      He was an unbelievably shrewd opportunist who manipulated thousands from the north and the south into a war.
      Prove me wrong.
      Proving you wrong is easy beyond belief. The fact is that secession took place before Lincoln was inaugurated. The statements of the states that provided additional rationale for their act indicates that it was indeed the perpetuation of slavery that led to those decisions. The Lincoln did it approach plays well at UDC and SCV conventions. Lost Cause revisionism will not play here.

      Here is Mississippi's rationale, for just one exampleThe exact same document can be found in the Mississippi state archives. https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp


      If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

      Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

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      • #63
        If I recall correctly, Georgia's declaration was very similar, with respect to the necessity and the rightness of slavery.
        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post

          Good post but the 1995 Quebec referendum was not technically on separation, the question was as follows:

          "Do you agree that Quebec should become sovereign, after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership, within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Quebec and of the agreement signed on June 12, 1995?"

          Had the referendum voted +50 Yes then the first step probably would have been for the Federal Government to hold a referendum with a clearer question.
          You're right about the question, I had forgotten about that. So yeah, it's an even more convoluted process. I've read a little more on it to catch up lately, and it seems the Federal Government wasn't going to be all that keen on entering into 'new partnership' negotiations. Their strategy was more on the appeasement side. Keep Quebec just happy enough that they won't feel the need to go deeper down the separation rabbit-hole.

          I personally have always disagreed with the 50% +1 = separation philosophy. I think it should need a little more solid support than literally one extra person who happens to cast their vote that day (maybe the No side lost votes due to a family stuck in traffic, or a couple returning from vacation and their flight was delayed that day ). Nor did I agree with the "Quebec is indivisible" line, in reference to what the First Nations would want. If Canada is divisible, then so is Quebec!

          I don't envy the powers that be, had Quebec voted 55 or 60% in favour...

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Rutger View Post
            Nah, Lincoln single handedly led the US into the civil war in wicked ways.
            He's to blame for the 600.000 dead.
            He was an unbelievably shrewd opportunist who manipulated thousands from the north and the south into a war.
            Prove me wrong.
            You can lead a horse to water, but they are he// to baptize.

            The killing has begun before the Republican party was established, in Kansas territory and in Missouri. Buchanan failed miserably to take control of the situation, allowing both sides to escalate the hostilities then stepping away to let the next president clean it up.
            Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
            Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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            • #66
              Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
              If I recall correctly, Georgia's declaration was very similar, with respect to the necessity and the rightness of slavery.
              Even Virginia, allegedly seceding because of Lincoln's call for troops, shows her true colors with her ordinance.

              "The people of Virginia, in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in Convention, on the 25th day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eight-eight, having declared that the powers granted them under the said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States, and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression, and the Federal Government having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slaveholding States.

              Now, therefore, we, the people of Virginia, do declare and ordain that the Ordinance adopted by the people of this State in Convention, on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and seventy-eight, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America was ratified, and all acts of the General Assembly of this State, ratifying or adopting amendments to said Constitution, are hereby repealed and abrogated; that the union between the State of Virginia and the other States under the Constitution aforesaid, is hereby dissolved, and that the State of Virginia is in the full possession and exercise of all the rights of sovereignty which belong to a free and independent State. And they do further declare that the said Constitution of the United State of America is no longer binding on any of the citizens of this State.

              This Ordinance shall take effect and be an act of this day when ratified by a majority of the votes of the people of this State, cast at a poll to be taken thereon on the fourth Thursday in May next, in pursuance of a schedule hereafter to be enacted."


              http://www.wvculture.org/history/sta...secession.html

              Regards,
              Dennis
              If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

              Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

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