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John Brown's raid and the Civil War

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  • John Brown's raid and the Civil War

    What impact did the Harper Ferry raid (an ill-conceived and bungled enterprise) have on the Civil War?

    For example, some say it moved the future CSA states to drastically improve their militia systems, thus establishing a solid bedrock for the Army of the CSA. Yet there are glaring problems with the future rebel army that were never addressed (particularly the Commissary department), suggesting that the effect might not have been sp pronouned.

    What is your opinion? Did it have an impact, or what it just one more incident piling atop others?

    If it had an impact, what was the effect?
    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

  • #2
    I think it motivated Slave State militia to recruit. The Militia was mostly a well to do social club before the raid.

    Pruitt
    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
      What impact did the Harper Ferry raid (an ill-conceived and bungled enterprise) have on the Civil War?

      For example, some say it moved the future CSA states to drastically improve their militia systems, thus establishing a solid bedrock for the Army of the CSA. Yet there are glaring problems with the future rebel army that were never addressed (particularly the Commissary department), suggesting that the effect might not have been sp pronouned.

      ?
      I would imagine that the pre war militia's were decentralized . And most would be infantry regiments, then cavalry and lastly artillery. Probably little thought was given to the all important support functions, especially supply.
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
      Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
        I think it motivated Slave State militia to recruit. The Militia was mostly a well to do social club before the raid.

        Pruitt
        "Well to do social club" would have been an apt description of militia units in Northern states, like NY's 7th, but in Southern states, militia units were taken far more seriously.

        The Citadel [South Carolina's military academy in Charleston] was founded 175 years ago and its earliest history was intimately intertwined with South Carolina’s, for better and worse.

        In 1822 — two decades before this school emerged — Charleston was roiled by Denmark Vesey’s planned slave revolt which urged slaves and free men of color to murder the city’s white population.

        Had it succeeded, it could easily have been the nation’s bloodiest such uprising by far.

        In response, the state sought ways to deter any future revolts and planted the seeds of The Citadel, whose name appeared on the Charleston scene long before the school did.

        State lawmakers created a municipal guard to patrol the city’s neck, which then was considered to be the area around modern day Calhoun Street. By 1829, the state had built a large guard house and an arsenal — locally called the Citadel — on the northern piece of what’s now Marion Square.

        Before then, the arms protecting the city had been treated more casually, offloaded on the same docks as produce and scattered about several locations around the city, said Steven Smith, a Citadel instructor who also serves as its unofficial historian. “They weren’t very secure.”

        Federal troops originally guarded the arms but stopped after the Nullification Crisis between South Carolina and the U.S. government. The state then created The Arsenal in Columbia and The Citadel Academy to assume that role.

        The local militia was active, too, so the city deeded it six acres bound by King, Calhoun, Meeting, and Tobacco streets as a military practice field in 1833, just in front of the new Municipal Guard House, said Nic Butler, a Charleston historian who has researched the history of Marion Square.

        In 1842, the state created a new institution in Charleston called the South Carolina Military Academy, which moved into the state-owned arsenal and guard house.

        “They (state leaders) thought we could get more bang for the buck if we converted those arsenals to military schools,” Smith said.

        It wasn’t a completely novel idea: Virginia had taken a similar approach when creating the Virginia Military Institute in 1839, the nation’s first state-supported military college. Alden Partridge had founded a military college in Vermont in 1819, which still operates today as Norwich University.

        The Citadel began in 1843 with only 20 cadets who were allowed to train on the neighboring parade ground, which also was known as Citadel Square or Citadel Green. . . . .

        "The Citadel’s early story," by Robert Behre, The Post & Courier, 25 Mar 2018
        Indeed, throughout history, slave societies always kept substantial armed forces on hand to deal with the very real threat of slave revolts. The Spartans might be the best known: they radically altered their entire society so as to keep an army ready at all times to address slave unrest. Therefore it shouldn't be surprising that most of the US Army's best officers came from the South: as long as they held large numbers of slaves, theirs would always be a militarized society.

        Not coincidentally, Dylan Roof chose for the location of his terrorism Charleston's "Mother Emanuel" AME Church: the very same church in which the aforementioned Denmark Vesey worshiped, and from which he conspired to execute his slave rebellion.
        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post

          I would imagine that the pre war militia's were decentralized . And most would be infantry regiments, then cavalry and lastly artillery. Probably little thought was given to the all important support functions, especially supply.
          I'd give you twenty likes for that post, if I could.....

          Benjamin Judah's story" Beloved", describes his struggle, on the eave of hostilities, to convince the Confederate government to ship cotton while it could, and bring in needed supplies.

          Instead, cotton shipments were embargoed- and burnt on the docks...
          The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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          • #6
            [QUOTE=Pruitt;n5085414]I think it motivated Slave State militia to recruit. The Militia was mostly a well to do social club before the raid.

            Pruitt [/QUOTE

            If Nat Turner's uprising didn't cause this to happen, I don't see how the far less serious threat posed by Brown would. The fear of slave uprisings and steps taken to deal with them seem to be fairly constant over time in the south.

            More important factor to the south should have been the amount of positive publicity Brown received in the North. That is the omen often overlooked.

            Regards,
            Dennis
            If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

            Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

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            • #7
              If you look at Louisiana population, most was located around the New Orleans to Baton Rouge corridor along the Mississippi. Except for Lafourche Parish in the heart of the Sugar growing area, that is where most of the wealthy ended up. There were Plantations spread out along the major rivers, where most of the Slave population lived. This area is where most of the Militia Regiments were located. When the South raised Volunteers for an Army, most of these Regiments only sent a Company or two. If you are saying the Northern Militia Regiments were set up different, The only one I have any data on is the Philadelphia Light Horse Troop which was formed by wealthy individuals. You needed wealth up North to own a good riding horse. Down South many people rode horses to get around as the transport system favored the river routes and there were few good roads.

              Pruitt
              Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

              Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

              by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

              Comment

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