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Were The Rebels Illegal Combatants?

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  • Originally posted by 101combatvet View Post
    Did all Northerners agree with the Jayhawkers murdering innocent civilians? Are perhaps it never actually happened.
    What's funny here is that Southerners were committing the same kinds of crimes against Southerners themselves. Nothing like a good dose of hypocrisy to cure this nonsense. If you were a Unionist or someone who didn't want to fight in the war, the Southern government & troops certainly waged upon them....or perhaps THAT didn't happen?
    The muffled drums sad roll has beat the soldier's last tatoo. No more on life's parade shall meet that brave and fallen few.

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    • Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
      Union troops did commit civil crimes in the war areas. The main problem was the commanding officers ignored the crimes. If the official troops were allowed to "play" who would the Jayhawkers answer to?

      Pruitt
      Not all. Some. Please don't paint all Union commanders with the same broad stroke.
      The muffled drums sad roll has beat the soldier's last tatoo. No more on life's parade shall meet that brave and fallen few.

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      • Of course. A number of Confederate commanders also ignored civil crimes as well. Civil Wars tend to bring out the worst in behaviors.

        Pruitt
        Last edited by Pruitt; 06 Mar 16, 20:11.
        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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        • Originally posted by Bo Archer View Post
          ...This would indicate a command system attached to the said jayhawker units. Thusly they were likely legal combatants and should not have been shot down like wild dogs on sight by the Confederates.

          ...
          This ROUTE seems to be a CONTINUAL LINE OF COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN THE JAYHAWKERS AND THE FEDERALS. "
          Sigh.
          No.
          You clearly have a personal interest in obtaining a result you desire, but considering only some elements of the historical record, those which you find convenient, and ignoring data that is not convenient, will never convince anyone save maybe yourself.

          During the Napoleonic wars, the Royal Navy was in contact with Spanish guerrillas and Sicilian bandits. The fact that the latter were in contact with the former does not make them combatants entitled to POW status, since they still failed at other parameters (such as complying with the laws of war). Not to mention that "contact", as in, exchange of intelligence or valuables, does not equate with hierarchical subordination. The Spanish guerrillas would have told you most emphatically that they did not receive orders from those heathen Englishmen.

          In 1944, the Communist GAP groups in Northern Italy were entirely part of the command structure of the Communist partisans. Yet they did not bear arms openly and did not wear even just a distinctive emblem; they operated in cities under German and Fascist control, and passed themselves off as civilians. So, even if they were in contact with a legal command structure (The Communist partisans were part of the CLN which in turn was the military command for the partisan units belonging to the Italian co-belligerent government), and belonged to a clear hierarchical chian of command, they still did not qualify for POW status if captured.

          You need all of the parameters. Not one out of several. All of them.

          I'll add that documenting the internal workings of a chain of command on the basis of documents of the other party in a war will never be very convincing. It would be fine if you could establish on the basis of Confederate documents that these guerrillas wore a Union uniform or at least a distinctive recognizable emblem, that they did not intermittently return to civilian life, and that they did not break the laws of war; but you'd need a Union document showing that these guys were "soldiers armed and wearing the uniform of their army, but belonging to a corps which acts detached from the main body for the purpose of making inroads into the territory occupied by the enemy." (Lieber Code, article 81), and that they were receiving orders from the Union HQs.
          Michele

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          • At this point I'd like to say there's no such thing as a 'civil' war. Wars are disgusting bloody messes. Those who attach a romantic nuance to it, (Hint, Southerners.) Have no clue as to how messy war is...
            Credo quia absurdum.


            Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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            • Hard to see how the Confederate forces could have been "illegal" when the 2nd Amendment made them perfectly legal to begin with.

              What was illegal, however, was Lincoln's blatant power grab.
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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              • Oh man....
                Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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                • Must be practicing for open mike night......

                  Regards,
                  Dennis
                  If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

                  Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

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                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Hard to see how the Confederate forces could have been "illegal" when the 2nd Amendment made them perfectly legal to begin with.

                    What was illegal, however, was Lincoln's blatant power grab.
                    ROFL! This must be a joke, no one could be that foolish.
                    The muffled drums sad roll has beat the soldier's last tatoo. No more on life's parade shall meet that brave and fallen few.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by hellboy30 View Post
                      Not all. Some. Please don't paint all Union commanders with the same broad stroke.
                      He didn't say all.

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                      • Originally posted by Charger View Post
                        He didn't say all.
                        To me, it was implied, but he already responded & we cleared it up.
                        The muffled drums sad roll has beat the soldier's last tatoo. No more on life's parade shall meet that brave and fallen few.

                        Comment

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