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Court Martial: James Longstreet.

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  • #76
    Originally posted by D1J1 View Post
    Attacking Cemetery Hill is a primary attack. One that the Confederates, bloodied as much as the Union forces and much disorganized by the heaviest day of fighting casualty-wise at Gettysburg may or may not have been able to do successfully on the fly as it were.

    Lee directed an effort to be made "if pracitcable." Those words are critical. If Lee wanted the assault he should have ordered it. The attack not being made is fully his responsibility.

    Regards,
    Dennis
    I agree. Ewell had to also take care of thousands of Union prisoners taken during the advance through Gettysburg and this alone kept his units disorganized enough. Hill could also not be counted upon to provide support plus there were already around 22,000 Union troops at or near Cemetery and Culp Hills plus enough cannons that an attack by Ewell in the early evening would probably have been defeated.
    "I think I understand what military fame is; to be killed on the field of battle and have your name misspelled in the newspapers." William Tecumseh Sherman

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    • #77
      Originally posted by D1J1 View Post
      The two aren't the same. Union forces in Chattanooga had been besieged for 2 months and Grant initially worked first to reopen supply lines to his forces, he didn't arrive until after the siege was already well established. Thomas' assault was to support Sherman on the Union left by drawing Confederate reserves away from that area. It was not designed to be a primary thrust, but became so as a result of Confederate errors and Union good fortune.

      Attacking Cemetery Hill is a primary attack. One that the Confederates, bloodied as much as the Union forces and much disorganized by the heaviest day of fighting casualty-wise at Gettysburg may or may not have been able to do successfully on the fly as it were.

      Lee directed an effort to be made "if pracitcable." Those words are critical. If Lee wanted the assault he should have ordered it. The attack not being made is fully his responsibility.

      Regards,
      Dennis
      Those are good points, on Chattanooga, I myself was there and visited the battlefield. The only conclusion I can come to is that the CSA never considered that forces could climb up that mountainside from the north. I would have needed mountain climbing gear to do it myself. It is an easy climb from both the west and the east, since I did it myself. The CSA had deployed to the east and mostly to the west but were negligent in their scouting to the north, which is where the enemy was concentrated.
      When looking for the reason why things go wrong, never rule out stupidity, Murphy's Law Nș 8
      Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. George Santayana
      "Ach du schwein" a German parrot captured at Bukoba GEA the only prisoner taken

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      • #78
        LONGSTREET

        I find it very difficult to find any fault with Longstreet's behavoir on July 3. On at least two occasions he had advised his commander of why the Union position and the terrain made any chance of success impossible. Yet he followed orders. Even if they were given with a nod. The result was the loss of half of Pickett's division.He relocated the artillary when the attack fail in preparation for a Union counterattack.It was only after the war ended the counterparts on the left flank attacked him.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Jack Torrance View Post
          Sickles was given a broad interpretation by Meade of the ground his corp could be placed so he has a good alibi. Floyd should have been sent packing into Union lines to be tried as a traitor.
          The ONLY "broad interpretation" of Meade's orders was where to place troops between the starting point (Hancock's left) and the ending point (LRT). Sickles disobeyed, simple as that. All Sickles "Lawyer-talk" was smoke and mirrors - he took on responsibility to put men where he had no business to and many lives paid for it.

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          • #80
            The man did what he could. Sure he made a few mistakes in following through. But the soldiers were tired, they may have lost. Who knows? One thing I do know. Stuart should have been charged with dereliction. Why? He 'gally-vanted' and did nothing of what he was supposed to do. He, like Pickett, was too full of himself.
            This bass guitar kills TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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            • #81
              Originally posted by rebpreacher View Post
              The man did what he could. Sure he made a few mistakes in following through. But the soldiers were tired, they may have lost. Who knows? One thing I do know. Stuart should have been charged with dereliction. Why? He 'gally-vanted' and did nothing of what he was supposed to do. He, like Pickett, was too full of himself.
              Eric in 3... 2... 1...
              "Liberty and Union, now and for ever, one and inseparable!" -Daniel Webster

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Viperlord View Post
                Eric in 3... 2... 1...

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                • #83
                  Eric's my buddy, and he knows how I feel.
                  This bass guitar kills TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Viperlord View Post
                    Eric in 3... 2... 1...
                    Was thinking the same exact thing.....
                    The muffled drums sad roll has beat the soldier's last tatoo. No more on life's parade shall meet that brave and fallen few.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by rebpreacher View Post
                      Eric's my buddy, and he knows how I feel.
                      Not to steal Eric's thunder, but here's a past post of his on Stuart's orders. http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...25&postcount=6

                      Given the language of his orders, how can you say Stuart failed to execute them in any way? The raid may have been misguided, and Stuart made tactical errors, but I can't see where he violated his orders there.
                      "Liberty and Union, now and for ever, one and inseparable!" -Daniel Webster

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by mgronski View Post
                        The ONLY "broad interpretation" of Meade's orders was where to place troops between the starting point (Hancock's left) and the ending point (LRT). Sickles disobeyed, simple as that. All Sickles "Lawyer-talk" was smoke and mirrors - he took on responsibility to put men where he had no business to and many lives paid for it.
                        I'm not trying to defend Sickle's deployment but I can understand why he made his move given that he was not a military man and that Meade did indeed tell him that he could chose his own ground "within the limits of his instructions". Those instructions were clear to Meade but after Sickles had mentioned to Meade of choosing suitable ground for artillery he went ahead and moved to the higher ground in and around the peach orchard because it was the most suitable ground in Sickles mind per Meade's instructions.

                        Meade later on didn't make much of a fuss about Sickles deployment, saying it was an error of judgement. But that was before the Sickle-Meade feud.
                        "I think I understand what military fame is; to be killed on the field of battle and have your name misspelled in the newspapers." William Tecumseh Sherman

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                        • #87
                          Kirk's entitled to his opinion. He's just wrong.

                          Someone has already flagged my prior post about this topic, and I have nothing to add.
                          "If you want to have some fun, jine the cavalry"

                          Maj. Gen. James Ewell Brown Stuart

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Jack Torrance View Post
                            I'm not trying to defend Sickle's deployment but I can understand why he made his move given that he was not a military man and that Meade did indeed tell him that he could chose his own ground "within the limits of his instructions". Those instructions were clear to Meade but after Sickles had mentioned to Meade of choosing suitable ground for artillery he went ahead and moved to the higher ground in and around the peach orchard because it was the most suitable ground in Sickles mind per Meade's instructions.

                            Meade later on didn't make much of a fuss about Sickles deployment, saying it was an error of judgement. But that was before the Sickle-Meade feud.
                            1) Excuse for Sickles not being "military" is lame since Sickles never even consulted Gen Humphreys, one of his div commanders, and next COS of the AOP of anything during that time, clearly the smarmy thing you'd expect from a NYC pol.
                            2) He couldn't get the Artillery commander Gen Hunt to concur with him because as Hunt put it, he simply didn't have enough men to cover the proposed lines (Meade had already made the decision to add 5th corps to that side of the field, so to say Meade was oblivious to final positions was incorrect as well, but Meade was biding his time for 6th Corps to arrive) and told Sickles so. Sickles thought himself the Commander of the AOP, or acted as an independent commander and took it upon himself to make positions that no other Corps commander on that field had any trouble understanding.
                            BTW, Sickles didn't even send someone over to Hancock to get his opinion either, and it cost Hancock some of his best brigade commanders covering Sickles mistake. You can look up the fateful quote by Hancock on seeing
                            Sickles men going forward- to paraphrase it- ..it won't be long and they will come tumbling back.
                            3) Meade had several pointed things to say about the commanders during that battle, but kept it to himself or confided them to very few, one person being his wife, and some of these letters survived after his death. IMO, he believed Sickles simply made an error and pointed it out to him when he came over at the time of Longstreet's attack. It was Sickles that made the fight of it post-Gettysburg to cover his a** and Lincoln being gullible about Sickles motives, believed it all. What motives you say- Sickles, Butterfield and Pleasanton were in a cabal to reinstate Hooker to command.

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                            • #89
                              Reorganizing the Confederate Army.

                              Reading Wert's book "A Glorious Army" he brings to mind
                              about Lee not appointing Stuart to take over the II Corp.
                              Would Mosby have taken over from Stuart when he would
                              have been appointed to the II Corp?

                              Marshall
                              In all my perplexities and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength.
                              Robert E. Lee

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by B7B Southern View Post
                                Reading Wert's book "A Glorious Army" he brings to mind
                                about Lee not appointing Stuart to take over the II Corp.
                                Would Mosby have taken over from Stuart when he would
                                have been appointed to the II Corp?

                                Marshall
                                Not a chance. Mosby was a major at that time. There were three brigadier generals in the Cavalry Division who obviously substantially outranked him and then there were all of the regimental colonels who also outranked him.

                                There's also that whole Mosby had no military training thing.
                                "If you want to have some fun, jine the cavalry"

                                Maj. Gen. James Ewell Brown Stuart

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