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The Regulators

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  • Waz
    replied
    I am really enjoying the old photos. They certainly give a different perspective to that era, compared to movies that show everybody dressed as cowpokes...
    Some of the hairstyles however, are pretty rude and only a head a mother could love!

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  • Beaker
    replied
    Even thought this was a young Billy and Joseph. Or Broderick and Billy. Read online that Billy got teased by adults because of the hat he wore and got the nickname the kid when he was like 15 or 16. Kinda how he got his attitude and didn't like being made fun of.

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  • Beaker
    replied
    This looked like possible Billy and Joseph. Brothers getting a pic together. Wish I could get a close up on ring on right hand with guy standing.

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  • Beaker
    replied
    This pic got me started in collecting tintypes thinking it looks like Billy second from left Tunstall 3rd and Bowdrie or George Coe far right. Thought far right hiding his hand a little because of possible injury. Look different in person. Lol

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  • Beaker
    replied
    Thought these were Billy's buddies

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  • Beaker
    replied
    Thought this could be Billy with the guy pointing in croquet pic. Stare at them long enough and they start to look like it. Lol

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  • Beaker
    replied
    Thought this pic has Sallie left bottom with possible Billy buddies.

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  • Beaker
    replied
    This pic I thought was maybe Billy and Tunstall a little bit after he started working for him.

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  • Beaker
    replied
    Didn't realize posting times out when taking too long. Pic I was talking about .

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  • Beaker
    replied
    Just putting this out there to see who they could be. I looked at this alot trying to match them. Left top to right. McNab, hoping next was Billy the kid but not sure, Chavez Y Chavez, Ad Saunders or a young Broderick. Left to right bottom maybe Dick Brewer, Frank Coe, George Coe. McNab guy displaying medal of some kind. Next to him large pinky ring possibly kinda like Billy's. Chavez, facial features. Saunders facial features but the hat looks almost identical to the hat Broderick is wearing in that solo pic of Broderick. Both hats have a similar decoration just above brim. Kinda has a Brewer facial feature. Frank facial features like high cheek bones and mustache. George facial features. Also if you compare that pic with the five guys that has Billy and Garrett in it. Almost same positions with four of them. Compared pics to ones online that say are some of them at a older age but have similar features. Wish I could get pics I have in focus close ups to view jewelry and facial images. Hear some tintypes are made with certain chemicals that can possibly react to bright light or heat could damage the image. Have other pics that resemble Billy or other people.

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  • majormack
    replied
    As I consider Billy Bonney, I think he was driven almost crazy by his yearning for excitement. I don't think that made him that crazy...just young. He seemed to love a good gunfight. While he was not a brawler, he was to small to be a fist fighter, but he was a gun hand and a good one. He loved fast horses and stole one of the best ones around. He liked to play games. He enjoyed playing with children who adored him, and he, them.
    Billy was wild about girls and sexual escapades. Not unusual for a 21 year old hard charger.

    Billy, while he did not seem to hesitate to rustle cattle, he had a refined sense, at least in his mind, of right and wrong. He must have known that he was breaking the law when he was running off with Chisum cattle, but he probably did not know what else he could do to survive. He was enraged by how the Dolan men murdered his boss, John Tunstall and he had a right to be so.

    John Tunstall, soon before his death. Photo found within the photographer's album.


    One wonders if he could have "gone straight". He said that he was forced into a life of crime. But could he have lived a workaday life? Would it have been too mundane?

    Billy the Kid was like Audie Murphy. He shined when the bullets flew. He calmed down when death was at hand. He took charge when others were on the edge of panic. But like Murphy I doubt that the kid had peace in him. Murphy drank, the kid did not, but he might have if he had moved to Mexico and tried to go straight.
    He had a baby one the way. Would Billy have morphed into becoming the adoring father? He never met his father, who died in Andersonville Prison in Georgia, but he apparently adored his mother who taught him to dance and who died, of TB, when the kid was 14. I wonder if Billy was a sociopath. Extroverted, excitable, a great story teller, but devious.

    His father was my great great grandfather's brother.
    Last edited by majormack; 10 Sep 13, 11:42.

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  • majormack
    replied
    I have pictures that I have not posted herein of: Frank and George Coe, their wives Helena and Phoebe Brown Coe, Lily Casey, Sallie and her husband William Robert, and a pic of him that I think he gave to her while they were courting, their two boys, Sallie's two younger brothers, Sallie's parents and inlaws.

    I have Billy's attorney. I have both of Billy's attorneys. I have a wonderful photograph of John H. Tunstall. More Regulators including: Charlie Bowdre, Yginio Salazar (probably not a regulator, but he fought along with the kid.) He was only 15. Juan Patron and his family, Barney Mason and his family, Robt Widenmann my least favorite regulator and John S. Chisum. I'm sure I've left out some. 60 tintypes all told!

    If anyone out there wants to see a specific individual I'll post it. I have almost everyone. Oh, I have another picture of the kid taken when the pictures of Rudabaugh and Wilson were taken. Billy is also wearing a new suit. The photo shows Billy's watch and chain. Which were the only things of value, other than his bay mare that he ever owned.

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  • majormack
    replied
    Some people believe that Pat Garrett and the Kid were pals. I had a long talk with Leon Metz, a well known and popular writer of all things related to the kid. He said, and I agree that Garrett and the kid knew one another, but that was about as far as it went.

    Billy had a well established circle of friends, and none of them were friends of Garrett. Garrett and the kid had little in common, except that occasionally the kid had played three card monte in the saloon where Pat was tending bar. Garrett was a tall, dower sort. He kid was a little guy and full of fun. They would have seen eye to eye in almost nothing.

    When Garrett finally shot and killed the kid he said that before he fired he recognized the kid's voice. I believe that is about how much he knew Billy. He knew him well enough to recognize his voice

    Garrett IMO was scared spitless of Billy the Kid. He knew he was quick as a cat and shot first and asked questions later. Billy's killing of Joe Grant is an example of how quickly Billy could react. A lot of people, including Barney Mason were scared to death of the kid.

    After the Kid's death people on all sides of the conflict breathed a sigh of relief. Even, probably the young woman he was about to run away with and marry. Billy was a problem where ever he went. Trouble was glued to him like tar and feathers.

    Billy was good friends with the Coe cousins, Frank and George. Both were regulators and spent many months with the kid, both admired him. Both lived well into the mid-20th Century. I spoke with Frank's grand daughter in 2010. She told me that Frank's wife, Helena Tully Coe told her that she would not allow the kid's name uttered within her home. If someone came over and wanted to talk to her husband, Frank about Billy the Kid, she would shoo them to the barn.

    Billy Bonney, aka Billy the Kid, aka William Henry McCarty is ironically, maybe the most well known American of us all. If you run into a fellow in Tokyo and mention Billy the Kid he will likely make his fingers into a pistol and say "bang, bang". If Billy had known this, he would have fallen over laughing.

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  • unclefred
    replied
    Pat Garrett and Killin' Jim Miller

    Like many of our western figures, Pat Garret started out as a buffalo hunter in the great western plains. He then became a lawman in New Mexico in 1878, some time after killing a man who had attacked him with an ax after Garret had pummeled him in a fight. Pat ran for Sheriff of Lincoln County in 1980, on a law and order platform and with the backing of the Governor, and the cattle Baron John Chisum, he won.

    Pat had played no part in the Lincoln Co. war, but as Sheriff he was soon to bring the law down on some of those Lincoln co. figures. It was Garret who finally tracked down Billy the Kid, under special auspice of the Governor, and shot him to death in the dark of night.

    Pat tried to make a career from writing when he hired Ash Upson to help him write a book to capitalize on Billy the Kid. The book was a major disappointment sales wise, with the hiring of an inexperienced publisher who flubbed the distribution.

    Pat next tried politics, but a Lawyer that was supporting the opposition, got into a tangle with Pat, it escalated from hot words to violence when Pat pulled his revolver and clubbed the man in the head. He lost the election.

    Going back to a trade he knew, he was appointed as head of a newly formed company of Texas Rangers in 1884. After only six months, he tired of the lawman life again and became a successful rancher for awhile, and then a Customs Agent, a land speculator and eventually in 1908 he returned to Las Cruses New Mexico where he was mysteriously murdered.

    ***

    Deacon Jim Miller, aka Killer Miller, was for many years an infamous gunman and hitman. Some believe he had a hand in killing famed lawman Pat Garrett.

    On July 30, 1884 the “Deacon” killed his first man, his brother-in-law, John Coop. Coop was killed in his sleep by a shotgun blast. The date of Miller’s birth indicates he would have been about 23 when he killed Coop, but some accounts say he was only 17. He was charged with the crime and found guilty, but the charges were dropped when he filed an appeal.

    The nickname, Deacon, arose from his steady and noted attendance in the local Methodist church. It was said he could quote scripture as well as any minister, spurned alcohol and tobacco and never used profanity. He also sported around town wearing a long, black, frock coat and packing a shotgun.

    All this time, he was a hired killer, and the work was never lacking.

    " In 1891, he rode into Pecos, Texas, a raw, tough town just beginning to acquire a little civilization. Its population, it was said, spent its time 'making a living, going to church, picnics, engaging in a friendly drink now and then, praying three times a day and fist-fighting twice a week." (Historynet).

    He was hired as a Deputy by Sheriff Bud Frazier at this time.
    It wasn't long before he began to out live his welcome, being accused of rustling and murdering local Mexicans. He was fired by Sheriff Frazier, and he became a bar owner.

    Feelings were strained between the two men and they broke out into shooting scrapes two different times, wounding both and Miller somehow walking away despite being shot in the chest. When Miller’s long, black coat and shirt were removed by the Doctor, it was discovered Miller was wearing a solid steel plate underneath his long coat. The plate was dented from four of Frazer's slugs. Later, Miller began stalking Frazer. He soon found him, playing cards in a Toyah saloon and killed him with a double barrel shotgun blast. Miller stood trial for the murder but again escaped the noose.

    After 25 years of contract killings for as much as $2000 each, his luck ran out when Miller was hired by three men, Jesse West, Joe Allen and Berry Burrell, to kill former peace officer, Allen Augustus “Gus” Bobbitt in Ada, Oklahoma. Miller promptly fulfilled the contract, in an ambush. The four were quickly arrested.
    In the early morning hours of April 19, 1909, a mob stormed the jail and the four prisoners were taken to a nearby abandoned livery stable and lynched.

    "Miller, to his credit, was as impassive as he had been when he blew other men into eternity. 'Let the record show,' he said, 'that I've killed 51 men.' He pulled off a diamond ring and asked that it be given to his wife; a diamond shirt stud he left to the jailer for some kindness. Then, as the noose slid around his neck, Deacon Jim Miller asked for his trademark, his black broadcloth coat. 'I'd like to have my coat,' he said. 'I don't want to die naked.'
    No, said the posse members; they had had enough of the cool killer's effrontery. At his repeated request, somebody did set Killin' Jim's hat on the side of his head, and Miller actually laughed. 'I'm ready now,' he supposedly said. 'You couldn't kill me otherwise. Let her rip!
    -Historynet.

    ***

    On March 1, 1908, Garret was killed while riding in a buggy with Carl Adamson, one of two prospective buyers for Bear Canyon Ranch, a property Garret was trying to sell. On the trail they met cowboy Wayne Brazel who was leasing Garrets property and had begun running goats on it. Garret and he were in a dispute over that action. Brazel joined the party and as they travelled he and Garret were arguing about the goats and the lease, which Garret felt threatened the sale of the ranch. They stopped at a point so Garret and Adamson could step out and take a leak. With their backs to Brazel, two shots rang out and Garret fell dead.
    The two men turned themselves in, Brazel claiming he shot Garret in self defense. He was acquited at trial.

    As time passed, people began to doubt the story and the trial itself was thought a 'fix'. Pretty soon a counter theory (among others) came to being.

    "an alleged meeting at the St. Regis Hotel in El Paso in the fall of 1907. In attendance at the meeting were W. W. Cox, Oliver Lee, Jim Gililland, Albert B. Fall, A. P. "Print" Rhode (Cox's brother-in-law), James P. Miller, Carl Adamson, and Mannie Clements. They were there to decide how to rid themselves of Pat Garrett. There were a number of motives: vengeance for Pat's activities while a lawman, fear that Garrett was continuing his investigation of the Fountain case, the desire for the water on Pat's ranch, and a seething anger over Garrett's killing of an alleged fugitive harbored on Cox's San Augustine Ranch.
    The alleged conspirators offered Jim "Killer" Miller ten thousand dollars (accounts vary) to kill Garrett. He accepted, and the money was delivered to him at Fall's El Paso law office. The goats were part of the plan, as was the compliance of Wayne Brazel. Wayne was intensely loyal to W. W. Cox and could be depended upon to obey the cattleman's orders, no matter what they were. The goats would assure Garrett's anger, and his anger would lead to threats. Adamson would assure Pat's arrival at the predetermined spot where Miller would do the shooting, Brazel would take responsibility, and Adamson would swear to the truth of the matter."

    http://southernnewmexico.com/Article...atGarrett.html
    Last edited by unclefred; 09 Sep 13, 16:07.

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  • slick24
    replied
    I am enjoying following the thread. I just really don't have much I can add to the information being passed on by you. I am appreciating it though..

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